Lonely Wrist: All Things Watches & Horology
Lonely Wrist dives deep into the intricate world of watches, unearthing the stories, craft, and passion behind every ticking piece. From timeless classics to modern marvels, this podcast winds through the history, mechanics, and cultural significance of timepieces. Whether you're an avid horologist or just someone who admires the beauty of a well-crafted watch, Lonely Wrist offers a unique perspective, uniting enthusiasts and curious minds. Join us every episode as we explore the art of watchmaking, discuss the latest trends, and interview watch industry experts, all while appreciating the silent yet profound voice of every watch's lonely wrist.
Lonely Wrist: All Things Watches & Horology
The Evolution of Jack Mason with Peter Cho
Ever wondered how an industrial designer transforms into a watchmaking maestro? Peter Cho from Jack Mason is here to share his remarkable journey with us. From his beginnings at Movado to designing high-profile watches for Hugo Boss and Tommy Hilfiger, Peter's story is filled with passion, creativity, and perseverance. Listen to how Swiss and Scandinavian design philosophies influenced his work and eventually led to the creation of Jack Mason in 2015, with a focus on timeless, high-quality, and affordable watches.
Peter doesn't just talk about watches; he delves deep into the core design philosophy that sets Jack Mason apart. Learn about the brand's evolution from its early days selling through Nordstrom to its current focus on e-commerce. Peter shares personal anecdotes, illustrating how Jack Mason watches have evolved in quality and design while maintaining their approachable, classic style. Discover the meticulous thought process behind iconic models like the Pursuit pilot watch and the impact of the Strata Timer on the brand's trajectory.
We also explore the behind-the-scenes challenges of building a watch brand from scratch. From transitioning from wholesale to e-commerce to striving for a place alongside reputable names in the watch industry, Peter opens up about the mental toughness required to grow Jack Mason. Hear about the brand's commitment to creating a memorable customer experience, right down to the thoughtful packaging of each timepiece. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for anyone passionate about watches or intrigued by the art of quality craftsmanship.
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hey guys, welcome to another episode of lonely wrist today. Of course, if you're watching from youtube, you can see my buddy, peter from jack mason, sitting in front of us today. What's up, peter?
Peter Cho:how's it going guys? Happy to be here for having me good to see you man
Blake Rea:yeah, depending on the time, we have two watches for or had two watches for review. I personally was in love with the Hydra timer and, justin, I know you had the.
Justin Summers:Elum. I had the Elum. Yes, sir.
Blake Rea:So thanks for that, Peter, and those were both awesome yeah of course. Justin was sending me wrist picks, probably like every day, day with your watch on, I was super hyped man so yeah, let's jump right into the first question. Uh like, why did you start, jack mason, and how did your journey with watch design begin?
Peter Cho:yeah, it goes back quite a bit, unlike a lot of the other micro brands out there. I'm a traditionally trained watch designer. I went to design school, studied industrial design. I got a job at a watch company on the East Coast called Mobato and that's where my watch journey started. I didn't know anything about watches before that. I just took the job because it was a job out of college and then, upon joining the company and really getting introduced to the world of watches, it really blew my mind.
Peter Cho:And early on and I was, you know, early on I was like, okay, this is something I want to do, uh, for a very long time. And uh, you know, I was very fortunate to also be um sent over to their Swiss office in La Chaudifon. So I spent some time there studying watch design under some of their more seasoned designers, and that's when I really started to grow an appreciation for kind of the art behind watches as opposed to just like a commodity. And ever since then that's that's just how I look at watches. It's, you know, the form factor, the just kind of the relationship of all, how all the components come together, you know, and really trying to come up with a design that that has like a harmony to it, just visual, but just how it wears, the materials that you use, you know all that sort of stuff, and so it's kind of been ingrained in my head and, you know, come upon coming back to the States, you know I just gained more experience.
Peter Cho:I hopped around a bunch of different brands at Movado. They, you know, they own a lot of uh licenses, so mainly in like the fashion watch space. So I was doing watches for Hugo boss, I was doing watches for Tommy He'll figure, all those, all those brands that you see like at a, you know, at a mall, um, but it was fun. It was fun, um, and you know, I I wanted to expand my skillset and so I primarily was on men's watches and so I really wanted to learn uh women's watches and so, uh, I took a job, uh at fossil group here in uh in the Dallas area here in Texas. That's why I moved down here, uh, and I took a job at. Uhelle.
Peter Cho:Watches is like a, you know, kind of a entry luxury women's brand that just has a lot of diamonds on it and it's just really uh, you know, flamboyant in a way, but um yeah, but uh, it was just something different and I was like you know, I just this is really just to gain experience. And so, upon arriving here, I did the same thing, just bounced around different brands, worked a little bit on mainly Michelle, but also kind of participated in other brands, like Burberry Armani brands like Burberry Armani, launched a few brands there, like Tory Burch watches and all these different things, and so eventually I was on Skagen watches, which was really cool. I mean, that whole Scandinavian design philosophy, yep, they're from Denmark right, yes, yeah, yeah.
Peter Cho:Yeah, it was kind of like the early, you know, just sort of the suit. They were known to be like super slim because they were using really thin quartz movements. And then you, just the way you design the case and all that stuff, um, and then you know around that time that that was 2014-ish, 2013-ish. I kind of started formulating in my head okay, you know, I, if I were to start a brand, you know what would it look like? And so, uh, that's how things just started, like uh, shaping and uh, in parallel, uh, there were a couple friends of mine who had started this uh sort of accessories, uh accessories brand and that was called Jack Mason brand, but they were not doing, um, kind of like you know, higher end watches. It was mainly um accessories, like wallets. They did watches, but it was like more, uh, just a lower end, uh, more novelty style watches and the whole, the whole uh premise behind that brand was it was collegiate licensing, so they were making watches for like 53 different universities, wallets, handbags, you name it Everything. And so, because that was the day it came from kind of the sales background and so they had kind of gotten this started. I don't know a little less than a year prior. And, you know, upon having conversations with them, it was like, hey, you know what, if a brand had started that was originally a watch brand, to, to, to like an independent watch brand and a little bit, you know, nicer quality than the ones that were currently sitting at the mall at that time. So when you walk into a nordstrom and you know, you see kind of like all those, all those brands that I have previously worked for, um, you know what would that look like. And so that was 2015 when we officially launched the brand. So I joined forces and it was just a few of us and I came from the design side, while my other business partners were more on the operations and sales side of things. And so it was kind of like a a great perfect union from that standpoint. And I knew right out of the gate, like exactly what this thing was going to look like. The brand, yeah, just because of all the experience I had gained, um, you know, at that point in time, it was like, you know, over 10 years of watch design experience. And so, um, yeah, that's that's kind of how it started. And, and you know, right out of the gate, we, uh, you know they'd say timings, everything, and our timing was impeccable.
Peter Cho:At that time, um, in that fashion watch space, it was, uh, it was at the height of Michael Kors watches. Yeah, everybody knows, you know, it was everywhere. You know you couldn't, you couldn't pass a, uh, uh, uh, you know a girl who is into fashion, uh, without you know, seeing a Michael Kors on their wrist and so so, you know, kind of took advantage of that. Um, at that, at that time at least, you know, in that market, took advantage of that. At that time, at least in that market, we launched the men's-focused brand and saw early success. That's how it started. I designed an entire collection. When you start a fashion brand, it's not just you start off with one watch.
Peter Cho:You've got to design an entire case like 36. A catalog, essentially Exactly yeah, that had that that sits inside a uh, inside a case at at a department store. So you know, our Nordstrom was our first account, um, and it kind of blew up. Blew up from there so there was yeah.
Justin Summers:So that that initial part of launching the brand was really we were really fortunate, yeah, and that probably got you guys a lot of traffic and stuff, especially you know the Nordstrom customers and and learning a brand through those. You know doors, that's a that's pretty awesome I didn't. I didn't know about the, uh, the name name as well, so that was really interesting to hear about. Um, yeah, so, peter, uh, can you explain, like the design philosophy, especially with you being, you know, big designer yourself?
Peter Cho:um, but explain the design philosophy, you know kind of behind jack mason and how has it, uh, you know, kind of gone up throughout the years? We fluctuated quite a bit, really trying to find ourselves building a brand. Building a brand was very important to me and I'll get into that in a little bit. But you know one thing that, me being a design product guy, the quality of the watch for who we were selling it to was always going to be better is that that was kind of the philosophy. It was like always make the best product you can for the person you're selling it to. So back then we were selling it to the guy who was walking into a mall, wanted a nice looking watch, didn't want to pay, you know, you know, not even a thousand dollars, like actually not even $500 dollars, right, for a watch that looked good, um, and that wasn't kind of cheap, right, and so, um, you know, for for me, when I started, I was like, okay, well, let's look at all the um, the most iconic watches in history. So, so, you know, tool watches, so dive watch, uh, pilots watch, racing watch, uh, you know, kind of a nautical themed watch, field watch. So that's how Jack Mason actually started.
Peter Cho:We created all these buckets and we fed into these buckets with the, with the, with the product, and so the design philosophy was always very American, it was always very classic, it was always supposed to be approachable and it still is today. I mean, you don't see us doing the craziest colors and that's kind of by design as well. You know, it's supposed to be approachable, it's supposed to be a watch that you can wear, you know, every day. I mean, it almost sounds like bad business practice when you say you know, we're happy if you just buy one watch that you can buy, you can wear every day. But ultimately, you know, if you were to buy one watch, you know it, it'd be great if you owned one of ours, and so that's kind of that's always been the philosophy, and so, while the product quality, um has now evolved in the last three years or so um, because our audience has evolved, you know but the design, in terms of the actual design philosophy, that has never changed since day one.
Peter Cho:It's actually kind of funny when we were in Nordstrom and selling to those guys, I mean, we were probably one of the very few brands that wasn't like Swiss made, that was using Sapphire crystals we were using. This was like 2015, when micro brands weren't really a thing. I mean, I was throwing, you know, the bg, super luminova, bgw9, uh loom on our watches, uh, all sorts of interesting sort of dial materials and techniques and stuff like that, but for that guy it went over their head you were.
Justin Summers:You were a pioneer in your time, man.
Peter Cho:I was like oh man, you guys don't even know what this, what?
Justin Summers:what this is, what the hell is that it sounds like too.
Blake Rea:If you guys were, you know, using Nordstrom's as your retail partner. I mean, it sounds like you were sitting in a case next to a ton of fashion brands, like you had already came from the design experience, so you kind of were familiar with the type of products they were putting out and how they were casing them, how they were merchandising them and how they were using distinct design language. And I mean, once you know you said a Jack Mason next to something like that, it's probably pretty easy to stand out, you know.
Peter Cho:Yeah, yeah, it was.
Blake Rea:It was. Of course you know having you know, yeah, yeah, it was. And of course you know, having you know little to new name cachet. You know you're sitting next to a versace watch, like everybody knows versace, you know, but nobody at the time knows jack mason, you know. So, yeah, I guess it pushed you into, you know, going up market. But still, you know, we, when we were, we were texting about this kind of briefly, like because I have, uh, like one of your early world timers, yeah, and I was going to europe and I don't even know how I like I stumbled upon the brand but I was like, hey, look, you know, I'm gonna be in europe, I'm gonna be working remotely, like I need a world timer and uh, and I think I picked it up, I mean it was. You guys were like clearing them out you know, yeah, and so picked it up.
Blake Rea:I wore it for I don't know like two years.
Peter Cho:I never had any issues with it and, uh, I think, I actually think I just replaced the battery on it oh cool um but yeah, that had the uh, that had the Swiss uh, the the Ronda GMT quartz movement, yeah is is all you needed.
Blake Rea:I remember when it came in I think you guys were just doing some marketing you guys were everywhere. You guys plastered the brand everywhere. I was like hey, you can't beat this for the value, of course, naturally. Then I think my friend bought one too. He bought one as well. We bought one together. It's just been crazy because you know, I was an early customer before you knew, before I knew you, and yeah, that's crazy to know, yeah to see how, how you've evolved, um, and as you've gone up market.
Blake Rea:It's just, I mean now again, you know, uh, obviously I've seen your watches at the shows and you know we brush shoulders there. But you know, having a chance, chance to spin one, for I don't know how long I had, I probably probably longer should have, but no, it was really. It was a really fun experience.
Peter Cho:And.
Blake Rea:I mean, you have a really, really great product. I mean it's hard.
Justin Summers:Thank you, Value. I'm sure I'm curious real quick and sorry to interject how long have you guys been doing the red, white and blue on the seconds tip? Because I'm curious about that Since day one.
Peter Cho:Since day one Love it. Literally two things that never changed was the red, white and blue tip and then the lone star on the crown. Those were two signature markings. I love that.
Justin Summers:You essentially like we were talking about in terms of design philosophy. You already had that concreted Before you even made this and were like, oh, we're kind of going upstream, let's do some different things. You were like, nope, I want to do these features that make us stand out. I think that's pretty cool.
Peter Cho:No, and I think that kind of the experience factor comes into play. Right, it wasn't just like, hey, I'm just going to start a watch brand and we'll. You know, source fashion. When we were a fashion brand, um, it was all the, all the cases, all the everything I was designed, it was, um, you know, ground up design. We pay for our own tools, we pay for it. You know all that stuff.
Peter Cho:And so, um, you know again, you know, for me wanting to establish ourselves as a brand, well, a brand has to have an identity and the way you have an identity is you have certain signature, uh mark, whether it's markings or colors or whatever it may be. Um, you know, we knew we had to establish that. You know, from the get go, it wasn't going to be we'll just try this and then try that and whatever. So it was really important to me to have some sort of brand identity. Um, you know, from the get-go, now that evolves through time, the brand evolves through time.
Peter Cho:But, um, we knew we wanted to be American. We knew we wanted to lean into Texas a little bit, so that's why we have the Lone Star American. We knew we wanted to lean into Texas a little bit. So that's why we have the Lone Star. So I think that's where we have a lot of pride in ourselves. And the experience factor. I think it's actually, I feel, fortunate to be able to have that kind of experience, to to then translate that into um, you know, our, our own brand yeah, what would you say is the most challenging part of design?
Blake Rea:um, you know, obviously, like I was when we were texting, like and everybody was listening like peter has an awesome youtube series about designing the watches, which is so cool to see how they come together and land on your wrist, so everybody should definitely go check that out. But I'm curious. I mean, when I think about a watch and I think about challenging execution, I think about, like, case shape and case architecture and I think from there, shape and case architecture, I think from there everything else could fall in. What would you say is the most challenging part of watch design?
Peter Cho:I think the most challenging part is forming it sounds almost philosophical, but forming the right relationship between each component. So, the case to the case, to the dial opening, the dial opening to the space between the indices and the dial opening, and then how the indices play with the, you know the form factor of the hand, the handset, and even then you kind of like go back to the case and you know if, if, if the overall design language is very angular, then do you want to continue that sort of form factor through the to the dial, you know, and all that stuff, stuff which you very, you, very much can. But, uh, but sometimes just because you know one part is angular doesn't mean the entire watch has to be angular, or one part is rounded, it doesn't mean the whole thing. So then you start just kind of playing with with shapes, with with different sort of surface techniques to balance the overall appeal. So it's very, all these little nuances, because the watch is so small, all these little nuances make every difference. Like every quarter millimeter makes a difference. And I think those are the things that I feel like we're pretty good at, just because throughout my career I've designed now thousands of watches, whether it's a fashion watch or a higher-end watch, it doesn't matter, it's a watch. And I think I have a pretty mean, I have a pretty good idea now on. You know, for example, when you design a dial opening, understanding where you should start printing a minute track in relationship to the case wall, because there has to be a certain distance to where it doesn't start distorting under a crystal Like if that's not the intention, but you need to leave some space there. Then then, where the indices start from the minute track and all these sorts of things.
Peter Cho:And so what? I? What I? Actually? There was a. There was a video that I saw a long time ago and it was actually about the Speedy and the designer was talking about the relationship of the speed, the indices and the hands and all that. It was really interesting. So the hour hand is three quarters of the length of the minute hand, the minute hand lands at three quarters of the length of the indices and, like all, it sounds mathematical, but when you put them all together, it. That's what makes this visual harmony. Yes, so, like you know, when you look at something, you're like man. This looks really good, but I can't figure out why. Well, it's because of these things that someone has thought through, you know.
Justin Summers:Yeah, there's. There's a lot of instances that, at least I feel like I see a lot of smaller brands, you know, starting up that are kind of in that space and they're creating these watches and you know they'll have a. They'll have a really good design, a really good dial, but there's always just something that it it feels like it's not like a together piece, like there's always something that's a little different and I've always thought about that as well. Like cohesively, how does this dial interact with the indices? How do the hands interact with, you know, the minute tracks? I mean there's all sorts of things that I feel like people, you know you can really tell the difference in between a good quality startup compared to one. That's just kind of learning, because they'll understand those things. Just like, as you said, you know you look at a Jack Mason watch and there's all these little intricacies that you start to understand why they were done that way, because, in terms of a bigger picture, you glance at it and everything looks like it has a perfect spot, right, right, yeah.
Peter Cho:Go ahead. You glance at it and everything looks like it has a perfect spot. So, right, right, yeah, go ahead.
Blake Rea:But something I've noticed too and, um, like, my journey as a collector has been a very, very, very rocky road. But my first real uh, I guess luxury watch was the omega speedmaster reduced. So you may be familiar with the watch, but since there's a 39 millimeter version of a speedy and the sub dials, like, are like miles apart from each other, you know, yeah, I could just, I could just never get over it, you know. And then, um, you know, so I, I, you know, when you look at something every day, like you have to love it, you know it has to, it has to be like in the weirdest way, like close to perfect, and so I moved it on. And then I got the real speedy and I mean that's an absolutely like stunner, you know, amazing watch. Um, and now I have three, three speed speed masters. But oh cool, um.
Blake Rea:But then going back to you know, when you see, and I read like, so I also have an iwc mark 18 and the biggest critical like point on that watch was people were saying that the date window was in like too centered and like it was off balance and like, and so people, people hated it and they, I personally, don't see it. But you know, as you wear these watches and they implement them into your, your daily routine, like you start to notice those small little imperfections. And you know watch collectors are, are technical people. You know like we're car guys, we're gun guys, we're, you know like everyday carry knife guys and you know guys.
Blake Rea:Yeah, yeah, you know, guys, we're, you know, like everyday carry knife, guys, and you know guys, yeah, yeah, you know um, so we're, we're into that and good design like really is like a I mean, it's a necessity for a watch you know it is, it is and it's so hard to explain good design.
Peter Cho:It's, it's um it. You know we are very much a design forward company, not just even the watches, our branding with our team internally, I mean we do all of our like video content, our emails, all the graphic design, our website, all that's done in-house, and every email we send, every post that we put on our Instagram. We as a team, we sit together and we actually think through what words we use and it sounds excessive, but every word, the tone in which you say something across the internet, it could be translated a million different ways. We're extremely the word we usually like to use. We're very, very intentional with everything we do. Any sort of ad, any digital ad we throw out there, it is extremely considered, like I said, because that's all part of it's what I guess industry, why people start using the term design. Thinking is something that we do, and so I think that's what. Well, we have a true, deep passion in it. Just inherently, we enjoy doing that kind of thing. We actually enjoy spending time sitting down talking through, like you know, deciding on what word to use on the next email headline. You know that kind of thing.
Peter Cho:It's just, I think, going through that process, going through, yeah, that sort of exercise only just enhances the brand experience. And you know what? Most people may not even get it, but but I think when you add them all together it creates this. There's a natural attraction to certain brands, you know. But, like you know, I have my own brands that I love and the way they do certain things, and it's just like, oh, wow, you know they, they really think everything through, and so guys like me, guys like I watch people, honestly, you know there is an appreciation for, you know, every detail.
Peter Cho:That's that's considered and so that's that's certainly, you know, a a philosophy of ours that we'll just continue to uh, try to improve upon, um, and test certain things. And uh, yeah, we've, we've certainly gone through a lot of different phases, uh, of the brand. I mean next year will be 10 years in business, which is a long time for, you know, brands in our space and so, um, so we have some some uh, special things planned uh, for that. I mean it'll be kind of like a 10 year anniversary a year.
Justin Summers:That's awesome. I'm excited for that. Yeah, you, you guys are just kind of past those like initial you know a couple of years, whenever a lot of people don't make it hate to say that you know as negatively, negatively as that sounds. But there is that phase of of starting a company within any industry and having those, those tough times and, you know, ultimately not succeeding. So glad to see that you guys are doing well. Um, I'm excited for the 10 years. I know that'll be a cool one. Um what?
Blake Rea:what, what has been? You know, while we're on this design topic and we're going to evolve here to other questions, but designing thousands of watches, I mean there's got to be one that is probably the most memorable I mean I know they're all your babies right in the weirdest, in the weirdest sense.
Justin Summers:So what's your favorite child?
Blake Rea:yeah, yeah, what's your favorite child? There's got to be one that you're like. This is like the, the tip of my uh like craft like I have reached the peak of my of my excellence here, you know yeah, so there's a few that come to mind.
Peter Cho:um, so, actually early on in my career this is when I was actually at Movado there was a company initiative back in gosh that was 2008, maybe that was a long time ago they wanted to launch a brand, a sub brand within movado, called mobado bold and uh, bovado bold at that time. Uh, the whole, the whole idea behind it was they wanted to market to a younger demographic because, you know, movado's like that old east coast brand that you're.
Peter Cho:you know, obviously there's a lot, especially in the new york, new jersey area, just italians you know, they got their gold chain and the gold Movado watch and, as that was the market, you know, and so they wanted to appeal to a younger demographic. And so, um, myself and a couple other designers uh, at that time there were two other designers Uh, they were like hey, we're going to, we want to launch this brand, you guys launch it for us. And so, uh, that was extremely exciting, a, because that was the first time, um, I was able to, or we had basically full autonomy on, like, um, what this thing would actually look like. Um, cause, the people who asked us to do it were the older people. They were like, hey, you young guys, dream this up. And so we actually went through all this conceptualization. It was really cool.
Peter Cho:And then we came up with the first Movado bold which was made out of. It was made out of a plastic, they called it TR 90 plastic. And we made the super badass uh crystal, uh, that actually went edge to edge like all the way, with a nice like bevel on it. This was way back. I don't even know if they make it anymore, but the reverse of color, the reverse of color in the in the inner case wall, and all that stuff and um launched that and I mean that thing just blew. It's still like bovado bolt still exists today. It's not what it used to be, but, um, yeah, that was. That was kind of a big um sort of sort of my last sort of big project at bovado before I I came to fossil. So that's that's one memorable thing.
Peter Cho:And then I I would say, the second one was the first watch we designed when I launched Jack Mason, and that was our sort of pilot watch. It was an early rendition of kind of that world timer that you have, like the. We call it the pursuit, and that watch is just sentimental just because, just because you know, it started the, it started the brand and, um, a little foreshadowing, it's probably going to make a comeback for our tenure and so you know, yeah, that kind of that kind of thing and um, you and I would say this yeah, go ahead yo, I was gonna say you probably sold a crap ton of those things, man yeah, yeah, we did, we did.
Peter Cho:It was, I mean, it was like uh for those who wanted an iwc. You know, it was just kind of that, that sort of that sort of uh.
Peter Cho:It filled that leaguer style yeah, yeah, um, and then this, this watch here, the straddle timer. This changed the game for the brand. It was a game changer for us and it's sort of like we were. We realized that we had earned, earned the right in a way to make product like this as a brand and appeal to the enthusiast and collector community, and so, um, this is certainly going to I mean, the strata timer is certainly going to be a watch that just, um, is forever going to be known as the watch that change, change the change the game for us.
Blake Rea:So so you're going to do a 10, a 10 year anniversary stratasimer is what I just heard actually, I think they're 10 years in the future.
Peter Cho:10 years uh, 10 years um uh, of a an early style. So we're really start, we're really pushing the envelope here, um uh, with, uh, um the quality of our product, um just the techniques that we're using. Yeah, that kind of stuff.
Justin Summers:That's awesome, man. Yeah, I don't even know what I'm planning for dinner tonight. So you know, over a year, 10 years.
Blake Rea:Doesn't work for watch brands. Yeah, for five years.
Justin Summers:Yeah, I can tell my wife tonight hey, I've got dinner planned for the next five, 10 years and she would like she'd die. She'd love it On to the next one. What were some of the biggest challenges that you faced when launching Jack Mason? And then, if you can kind of wrap it up and tell us, like, how did you overcome those challenges?
Peter Cho:Yeah, the biggest challenge early on was this is interesting because we were not an e-commerce company. We were. We were a wholesale company. That's how we started the business. We weren't selling online company. That's how we started the business. We weren't selling online. So the challenge was trying to get buyers to buy our product. Then I put my sales salesman hat on and that was brutal. You get yeses and you get nos. You obviously get more nos than you get yeses. Brutal, you get. You get yeses and you get no's. You obviously get more no's than you get yeses. Um, but I mean there were. We were going on road shows traveling all over the country. You know, in some cases literally knocking on retail doors with a suitcase of watches and like in the store while there are customers, I I would lay out like product and say hey, is oh first. It's like is your buyer in in the store? And yeah, and and like, show them the product.
Justin Summers:I mean you were like the Jehovah's. You were the Jehovah's witness of the watch industry.
Peter Cho:Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, and that that was. I mean, there were a lot of random boutique shops in the middle of Missouri that, like you know, that I, you know, spent five minutes in, but that that was, you know, physically taxing it was. Mentally it wasn't as taxing, because I'm so passionate about, I believed in our product and so it. It was just like just a matter of, like you know, it's a, it's a numbers game, um, it'll come eventually, just just keep at it, it'll, it'll happen.
Peter Cho:Yeah, so that was probably the most challenging thing um, trying to get brand recognition out there the old school way. It wasn't through digital ads, it wasn't through um, you know, anything like that. So, um, and then we overcame that. Uh, just through, uh, just you know, pulling together mental toughness. I think mental toughness is kind of the biggest um, the biggest thing was you have to almost convince yourself to believe that it's going to work out, and so that that was the um. You know a lot of just chats, a lot of uh, like I said, pulling together as a team. Um, I can't imagine doing it alone. I know some brands out there do it. There's like a one man show or even a two man show. That's, that's tough. It's tough, that's the perseverance.
Peter Cho:Yeah, it is, and so, um, yeah, think that's it's funny because it has nothing to do with anything else other than, you know, keeping your mind right, keeping your head in the game, just focusing and actually believing that you have the right product, I think is what drives you, or it's what it's what drove us forward, for sure.
Justin Summers:Yeah, that's the first, I'm sure that. So I was going to say I'm sure that a lot of like our viewers and listeners would probably appreciate hearing that as well, because you know, a lot of times you know these brands and people have you know all these these crazy extremities that they go through, and for you it was just like hey, like it's just mind over matter, like persevere through it, like don't get down about it. Um, if you have a good product, then of course your product will ultimately shine through because people will believe in you. It's just a matter of believing in yourself. So I like that. Yeah, sorry, blake.
Blake Rea:I was waiting, cause we asked this question to pretty much every brand and, uh, I'd say like nine out of 10 times where we always hear a supply chain rant, you know Um, which is, I mean, another challenge in itself, you know Um, but but that was actually kind of like grounding, you know that was a great answer, you know no, it was.
Peter Cho:You know, supply chain is certainly, it's really so. That's the difference between us and a lot of these newer micro brands is that, like supply chain, I had down pat because of all the experience I had. I had all the connections, I had all the you know factory connections, I knew how product development worked, I knew how to plan for product ahead of time to you know planning, all that, the launch dates, all that sort of stuff, so that I think that really kind of we had a little bit of an advantage there. So, you know, experience it matters, you know, and so you know, from that it matters, you know. And so, um, you know, from that standpoint it wasn't that hard. It was really just. It was really just, um, trying to convince people hey, you know, we, uh, you know we have something good here, um, and just getting getting more people to to, to know about it.
Blake Rea:I'm curious to get your perspective too. I mean, as a designer, you're clearly keeping your eyes out in all corners of the watch market, looking for trends, bringing those trends, experimenting with new design concepts. I mean trying to incorporate trends into your design language. I mean trying to incorporate trends into your design language. Are there any trends that you'd like to speak about, that you've spotted, that you are excited about or that you see are promising? I mean, you see a lot of brands that are kind of catching on to the materials trend, like doing their own materials and case materials and things like. But you know you don't see that in the micro brand industry.
Peter Cho:So I'd like to hear your perspective. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, uh, and and I'll drop, I'll drop some nuggets here just because of the, the world that I came from is a lot of these trends that you have been seeing uh have been trends that existed in the fashion watch space, like 10 years, over 10 years ago. So when you see, uh, things like, uh, like moon phases, moon phase watches that was in the fashion watch space a long time ago. No one even understood what it was, and all of a sudden, you see a whole bunch of them, right, um, and uh, uh, one one one that I thought was interesting was, you know, mosaic dials, uh, mosaic dials. When I joined the michelle watch brand, like in 2010 ish time frame, we were doing mosaic and mother of pearl mosaic dials like all the time, all day, like, like it's pretty cool.
Peter Cho:Yeah, and so it's. It's just interesting how you and what's interesting is actually the higher end Swiss brands, heritage brands they actually looked to the American fashion watch industry to gain some like, some sort of like inspiration and, like you know, that sort of stuff, because we were doing all sorts of stuff. That was the beauty of working at a huge conglomerate like fossil group. They owned their, they owned their supply chain, so we were able to experiment all sorts of stuff. It was just, you know, because you, they have the capital, they have that infrastructure to be able to really get crazy, and so I mean diesel watches back in the day they were doing the absolute craziest thing. I mean they were doing, yeah, I mean they, they had like half stainless steel, half plastic watches that were like molded and screwed into the water. It was just crazy, uh, but, um, you know it's and and I'm happy to see all that stuff sort of coming back it's all sort of, you know, cyclical, um, and I think that, um, what?
Peter Cho:What I enjoy seeing is more experimentation, uh, in in the industry right now, um, especially in more of the independent, like micro brand space. You know it's, while these heritage, yeah, these heritage brands, even they continue to move up market. I mean, obviously, rolex is dropping solid gold watches and all that sort of stuff, which is like, eh, kind of boring. But it's once again, it's this segment, that's, you know, the micro brand, more of the independent sort of smaller brands that are pushing the industry forward in terms of, you know, being like more innovative and things like that. You know, I like to see that and we're going to start incorporating more of that in in Jack Mason. Right now we're sort of building our catalog back up. We've we've sort of been in transitioning or in transition from, like our previous fashion fashion brand days into more of this enthusiast brand. So it's just taking time to kind of exit some of this product and, you know, create a space to to ramp up our catalog back up.
Justin Summers:Yeah, love that. Um. So I know, you guys, being guys, being you know, pretty close to your community and everything, I'm sure that you guys, you know, have a a pretty good plethora of feedback that you get from people. Um, how does the feedback from your customers influence, uh, the design and then, like, ultimately, that development process at jack mason d? Do you guys, you know, take everything as a grain of salt? Do you like, like you know, you really listen to people, like just explain this through that process.
Peter Cho:Uh, no, definitely, Um, definitely, listen a lot, uh, definitely, uh, take a lot of feedback in. I, I take it very seriously. I read all the reviews, I read all the um, um, you know, suggestions, one-off suggestion that someone would make Um, because at the end of the day, I mean, I have 20 plus years of watch design experience, but I, I still miss things, you know, I still uh, there are things that I just don't think about. It just goes over my head, you know, and and it's really fascinating to see the community be so passionate about something that they're even thinking about things that, like you know, someone, like myself, you know, just didn't even think about. We implement them. I mean just, for example, our strata timers that we just launched. We launched three new colorways.
Peter Cho:But one specific suggestion from a single customer was saying for smaller wrists on the bracelet, because of the micro adjusting clasp in there, adjusting uh, clasp in there, uh, when you, when you have an even amount of adjustable links on each side, uh, and for someone who has to remove all the adjustable links because their wrist is so small, well, when they activate the micro adjusting the, the clasp actually becomes off, centered on the bottom of your wrist, and so what we did with the new one was we offset the amount, we put more adjustable links on one side than the other to sort of offset that like clever micro.
Peter Cho:Yeah, so I would have never thought of that a because I don't I don't have the smallest of wrists, so I would have never thought I that that's something I don't consider. And so you know, it's important to us to make sure we're listening to them, to make product that is ultimately customer centric, you know. But then of course, you know, with that, a lot, of, a lot, of, a lot of things do come through that are just, you know, you just got to take with a grain of salt, you got to filter.
Justin Summers:Yeah, I think, I think that we all have our fair uh, you know, having some people that speak, you know, pretty negatively, you've got internet trolls and things like that, but it's good, you know, and, and ultimately, you know, I I like that people you know kind of keep you on your toes. Uh, I think that it's pretty special that you personally go through and, you know, read and listen to people's feedback. Feedback, um, yeah, that's one of the ways that we grow, you know, as a business, as human beings, um and so, yeah, I mean, I think that it means a lot and I'm sure that you guys have probably, you know, had a, had a good fair share of things that people recommend that you're like, wow, that's actually a good idea, so let's do that.
Blake Rea:Yeah, yeah absolutely I've sat on probably the past, like I don't know, for the past year or so, like if the big brands, the luxury, high-end brands, like if they listened to their customers and then you know brands like jack mason or you guys may not exist.
Blake Rea:You know, you never know, right? Um, yeah, because you know these brands aren't giving the customer what they want. You know so the fact that, uh, you know these brands aren't giving the customer what they want. You know so the fact that, uh, you know that you're so design forward and I mean it's probably challenging. You know where you have to sit back and say, hey, look like I have to reassess, like this huge design element just to get you know this feedback to to actually like or this, you know to get this. But then, to your own defense, like as a designer, like everybody uses their watches differently, yeah, like you're going to use yours differently, I'm going to use mine differently. Justin totally uses this differently and everybody the same around the world. So, um and so, as a designer like you can't account for every single like use case, you know you can't, and it's, it's interesting.
Peter Cho:And then I think that's where you really have to. If you know, if you are a brand owner, you always have to be hyper self-aware of you know, your like kind of catalog. You know what do you, what do you have in that catalog and are you hitting each type of customer? And that has nothing to do with trying to make something for everyone, I don't think that's right. But you should have a catalog that does kind of address different types of wear, because not all watch collectors are, are the same, you know. And so, um, making a watch that's more polished versus one that's more tool watchy, more brushed, and you know that sort of stuff, and so, um, that's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's always a moving target really.
Blake Rea:Yeah, I'm, I'm curious as well. Um, you know, obviously we talked about planning dinner for five years. Where do you see the brand heading in the next five, ten years?
Peter Cho:um so, and then the second part of the question is I'm sure you probably have some, some goals that you'd hope to accomplish and, yeah, if you could discuss those with us yeah, yeah, I, I think, um, I think within the next five years, I, what we're trying to push towards is becoming the first brand you think of when you think of american sort of luxury, uh, like a premium brand. Maybe luxury is not the right word, but when you think of a high quality watch, that is, um you know, uh, a watch that you buy from, like a swatch group brand, for example, um, you know, entry level ish, uh, really up there with the long jeans of the world, the orases of the world, things like that, I see us really kind of taking that spot. That's what we're trying to aspire to, that's what we're working towards, and we're being extremely strategic and methodical and like trying to rebuild our catalog in that manner to really hit that goal. And it's not just making expensive watches for the sake of making expensive watches. I don't, I don't think that's right. Um, you know, we have been in business, for next year will be 10 years and so, um, you know, I believe we've sort of earned our stripes in a way to kind of go in this direction. Um, but we will do it responsibly.
Peter Cho:Um, you know, it's no matter what watch we put out there, it's going to be extremely like, thought out and um, high in quality, you know, and a lot of value from that standpoint. Um, and you know, like I, like I said, in the next five years, that's sort of the, the sort of the pedestal that we want to. We, you know, we want to be standing all I uh, like it'd be great to have, you know, two, three watchmakers right behind me, like putting all of our watches together in house, you know, doing all that sort of stuff. I think that is the kind of ultimate goal we really want to be known as uh, especially in our home state, here in Texas, there is Texas pride is a whole nother level, you know, and and we want to be the like, become kind of a household name here. So that's, we're definitely working towards that and, um, you know, remain uh sort of independent, you know, um, and we're not, we're never going to be, we're not going to get into like horology or anything like, you know, anything like that.
Peter Cho:There's plenty of brands that in Switzerland that can do that, you know, and that's not a place that we're going to try to even like go into because, frankly, that's not who we want to be. We just want to offer a high quality timepiece that's going to last you a long time and really, you know, with really good design, you know, and to be able to say, hey, this is an American brand that is missing right now. Honestly, I mean, hamilton, you know, went to and they are an American brand, but they're a Swiss made. They're owned by Swatch Group, right, or Richmont Swatch Group, yeah, swatch. So I mean, that's kind of the, that's kind of our aspirations is to.
Peter Cho:Really, I like to say we want to be the Christopher ward of the U S, you know. Uh, now they're, they're getting, they're doing all sorts of crazy, incredible things over there and again, yeah, that's, but that's not, that's not who we want to be. I mean, in in in many ways, that's not. That's not American either. Right, americans are just like let's take what works and just keep doing that repeat, rinse and repeat, do it really well. It's like a, like an f-150 truck, you know what I mean. That thing has like the same engine for the last 20 years or whatever, just because it works. You know what I mean. It's solid, it's dependable. I mean. I think that's kind of um, that's kind of like that is sort of the american spirit. It's not we're's dependable, I mean. I think that's kind of um, that's kind of like that is sort of the American spirit. It's not we're not, we're not the most innovative, it's just make something that's reliable, um that can last generations. You know, I think that's that's sort of the attitude, that, uh, that we have.
Blake Rea:Yeah, I mean it really shows.
Blake Rea:I mean it really shows like it really shows. Like I said, um, you know, obviously it's one thing when you you go to an intersect or you know watch show or something like that, and you just, you know, see your watch for 10-5 minutes or whatever, and you know you're kind of lost in the sea of brands, um, but you know, I I would encourage a lot of people out there, you know, not just because you're here, but to to obviously look at jack mason early if you're considering on getting a time piece, or you know something that you know you could feel confident in and something that's. I mean, I mean, you know even that little keeper, you know that little like keeper, that that little button that you designed that holds the uh, you know the strap down. It's like I never seen that before and at first it was weird to me. I was like this is super weird, you know, because I'm used to looking down at my wrist and seeing like yeah, you know like a little strap hanging up and I it just.
Blake Rea:It's just so familiar to me. But yeah as, as I started using it um, I was like, oh okay, like this is, this is cool. You know, it's super cool, you know I thought that was a christmas ornament.
Blake Rea:I'm just kidding and then you know, of course, packaging. Right, you know, like whenever I, you know, I I don't we don't do the unboxing stuff like we do the youtube reviews, and we don't, I mean I I get the box and the packaging is all part of the experience. But, um, you know, everything just felt so like intentional, you know, like you said. And then I mean you had like a little note there. You know that I mean, clearly, you said just a production watch. You know it wasn't like a prototype or something. Yeah, and so I got to feel what it would be like to be a Jack Mason customer again the second time.
Peter Cho:Yeah.
Blake Rea:And yeah, I mean, even in the early days, you know I would, I considered, you know, the Jack Mason experience, like when I first got that watch, like I would wear it everywhere, like I I don't wear it as much anymore.
Blake Rea:Um, but you know I wear it everywhere and then, yeah, at the time I got it really early into my collecting journey. So you know, most collectors, when they first start, you know they'll, they'll put their boxes up on like little, like shelving units and use, make like a little mini display and and, yeah, for I don't know three to four years, you know, your little jack mason box was up there on my, you know my little watch wall. You know, and uh, that's awesome and yeah, I wore it through.
Blake Rea:I don't know, like seven, eight, nine countries, wow that's cool um and I've yeah, I've had some.
Blake Rea:I mean, I've ended up taking off the bracelet and putting it on a nato and, and just dude, a green nato rocked that thing out, man oh nice yeah, um, yeah, and yeah it's, it's crazy to think about and that's going back to, I mean going back full circle, right, like from the beginning of the podcast. Like you know, these are experiences, you know. Owning a watch is an experience, you know, and you build moments and memories and share your life with your watch. Yeah, and I mean for people that don't understand watches, don't understand that, you know.
Peter Cho:Yeah, it experiences everything. Experience is a huge part of our brand. It's that that's the reason why I was telling you earlier. It's, uh, even just coming up with copy on our website is is important because every time, every time there's an email or social media post or advertisement or whatever it may be, that's's one touch point with with a potential customer or even an existing customer, right, and so that touch point is every day you might have five seconds with that customer and so make an impression.
Peter Cho:What can you, yeah, what can you do in five seconds? You know what I mean, and so you want to make sure you're not overlooking that it it means a lot, you know it's. So, at least we, we play, we put a lot of value in that, so that, um, just, you know, when it comes to the packaging and that kind of stuff, I mean, when you look to the best of the best, like apple products, for example, god, that whole thing is an experience. Uh, you know, there's a reason why they they put the product for as soon as you open a box, you see the product, like that's the first thing you see, and then all the mess is underneath it, right, um, all the accessories and stuff are underneath it. Um, and that's intentional, you know. That's like hey you, we want you to see what you bought you know, and so, um, those kinds of things make a difference.
Peter Cho:I appreciate I have a high appreciation for that kind of stuff and so, um, trying to, you know, incorporate that into our overall uh brand experience. And you know we have some more ideas on uh how to, how to enhance that even more, uh going forward and as well as even uh even sending off uh, you know, uh like press pieces for pieces, for example, like what is that experience for you guys? You know, um, uh, it's. I think that's kind of a next step for us and we don't want to just send you a watch, you know, in a box like every, every other brand, you know what I mean it's like how do you yeah?
Blake Rea:we've, we've gotten, I've gotten like prototype watches that don't exist and I've gotten. I've gotten um watches in grand Seiko, like roles that have not you know what I mean and and um you know it's literally. I've gotten just a single watch. Uh, like, in, like a little like um peanuts, like just just just a watch, like just laying there in the bottom of it, um, and, of course, like you know, like I'm like all right, well, since you sent the watch to me this way, I'm gonna send it back to you.
Justin Summers:This is the same way I take I take pride in my stuff as well and you can. You can ask blake, he can attest to this. I'm very like ocd about taking care of things, like making them clean. Of course, whenever I'm shooting you know product shots and doing videos, photos, I'm trying to make sure it's as clean as possible. You know to an extent. But I mean same thing. You know that that LM that you had, of course, you know kind of, let me have a little bit beautiful watch. Yeah, I was like man, I have to like do justice, like sending this back to peter because, like it was, it was perfect. I was like dude, like I'm, I'm getting this virgin watch, I don't want to mess it up. So I mean I did, you know, I sent it back and I was as precious as it could be with it, um, but I mean, yeah, I'm in total agreement. I think that it's part of the experience, um, and I like that you guys kind of take that into consideration, you know, because a lot of people do.
Blake Rea:You hold an epic title because you remember when I was in San Francisco and we bumped shoulders and I was there with my wife and we were just like doing some early circling and then my wife like picked up the LM right and she was like oh, this is fucking cool. You know this is amazing wife, like you have no idea, like my wife has never said that my wife hates watches she, she would.
Justin Summers:She hears watches 24 7 around him, so whenever she hears the term watch she's like the other way. Well, she, she used to edit, she used to edit these podcasts.
Blake Rea:And so, like you know, as we progressed, like we got better at talking and keeping our flow together, and so I was like all right, I can just spare you from editing the podcast, so that way I can talk about watches a little bit more in the normal life. Crazy, because she, like I said she would burn, she would burn all those watches at wind up if she could, you know, send them back to the scrapyard, um, and the fact that she like really resonated with the lm, what was kind of cool.
Peter Cho:You know, you were there, you saw so, yeah, it's great to hear yeah, no you're definitely, you're definitely onto something special.
Justin Summers:Yeah and I agree, I think the linen dial and everything is great. I know you guys have had iterations before that, but that just the light catches and stuff like at angles. You know that little curvature on the crystal dude, it's beautiful. We actually yeah, we actually just posted a website article, just kind of a little, you know, a little short. You know, get some good professional photos in there and you can see some of that.
Justin Summers:So for any viewers and listeners. You guys can check that out. It's on lonely wrist, um. And then of course, we're, you know, doing some video content for some of those watches too. So you guys can look forward to seeing that, and I know you're excited for that, peter, so look forward.
Blake Rea:Yeah, definitely yeah, yeah, by the time this drops, everybody will have seen our youtube reviews and all that. So hopefully we'll we'll pair them up and we'll save the LM review for the date of this drops, and and so we'll sync those up. But yeah, we want, we wanted to thank you for spending, you know, just an hour with us and talking about the brand and talking about the future and, you know, giving us some insight. We've been kind of doing this weird little thing at the end where we essentially turn our platform over to you. So, you know, here is the speaking floor. You've been talking for an hour, of course. So if you don't have anything to say, I understand, but you know, here's your opportunity to speak directly to our listeners and say something that maybe we didn't talk or touch about.
Peter Cho:So Sure, no, I appreciate it. First of all, thanks for having me on your guys' show. Big fans of you guys, obviously good people, and that's why we do it is to be able to meet new people and hang out and chat and talk watches. But I guess if there was a message that I'd like to throw out there is that, you know, I do believe we have an interesting story to tell.
Peter Cho:Uh, jack Mason, I know, you know, when we kind of burst onto the scene with our GMT watch, uh, we kind of burst onto the scene, people were like, well, where did these guys come from? And it's like, hey, we've kind of been here this entire time flying under the radar. The only reason why you didn't see us is because we were selling to a different type of customer, you know. And so now that we've sort of repositioned ourselves, uh and um, you know, been in sort of rebranded in a way, uh, you know, there's there's going to be a lot more exciting things happening uh, with the brand. Um, you know now that, now that all of our focus, my focus, is on creating these really exquisite timepieces, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm eager to continue to sort of be more involved with the community, with the watch community. It's been been awesome, uh, especially going to all these shows and things like that.
Peter Cho:Um, we have so much to share. We have so much uh, passion and uh like love for our own brand. There's a lot of pride there and so, um, yeah, we're, uh, like I said, we're we're just looking forward to the uh, the next 12 months. Honestly, there's a lot of great things that are going to happen, a lot more collaborations that are going to happen. Um, we are, um, dr Pepper. We have renewed that, that license, so we'll do another Dr Pepper, but as well as, uh, some other, some other amazing, amazing collaborations, so that that'll be coming down the pipeline and yeah, where, like I said, I'm, I'm, I, I'm happy to be here and I'm happy to tell, tell our story, because it is a genuine one and we hope that you know that comes across in everything that we do.
Blake Rea:So thank you guys. Yeah, no, I mean, we knew, we knew we had to have you on. I mean everything you like. I said we're fans of yours as well and we appreciate you know everybody who you know we're. We're early into the game, you know. We're just over a year now of lonely wrist and and the growth has been crazy and insane. Like you know, it's just me and Justin, you know, doing this thing from from zero, so, uh, so, yeah, I mean, the fact is, you know that brands like yours support us.
Blake Rea:You know, and help us and help us get hands-on with your products and and help us build content. You know it's amazing. So we, so we, so we, we love and appreciate you, you as a brand, and and uh, and yeah, we're looking forward to the next 12 months as well awesome all right, everybody.
Blake Rea:that wraps up our interview with peter from jack mason. Make sure you check out jack mason online jackmasonbrandcom. I will plug and link all the descriptions, or plug and link all the links in the description so you can check Peter out. Definitely, go on to their website and watch that series that I talked about, where you really get to kind of see Peter do his magic and build these watches. I would highly recommend it. I highly enjoyed watching every single episode, so I'd encourage everybody to do that and, of course, you know, if you like Jack Mason, pick your one up. We will see everybody on the next episode.
Justin Summers:Thanks everybody.
