When Functionality Meets Legacy: Jan Edöcs on DOXA's Resurgence

Beneath the surface of every iconic watch brand lies a philosophy that defines its approach to design, value, and market positioning. For Doxa, that philosophy remains refreshingly clear: stay true to your origins, deliver exceptional value, and never compromise on functionality.

In this candid conversation with Doxa CEO Jan Edöcs, we explore how this historic Swiss brand has navigated its remarkable resurgence since 2019. While many luxury watchmakers chase trends or continually expand into new categories, Doxa remains steadfastly committed to what they know best – creating purpose-built dive watches with distinctive designs at fair prices.

"We're not trying to please everyone," Edöcs explains, revealing how this focused approach has allowed Doxa to cultivate an intensely loyal following while gradually expanding its global footprint. From their strategic decision to limit distribution channels to their thoughtful approach to special editions like the Clive Cussler collection, every move reflects a long-term vision rather than short-term gains.

Perhaps most fascinating is Doxa's perspective on value in an industry increasingly defined by exclusivity and premium pricing. While many brands develop in-house movements to justify higher price points, Doxa deliberately maintains accessibility. "Why should we?" Edox asks, explaining that true dive watches prioritize functionality over showing off decorated movements. This philosophy extends throughout their product line, from the remarkably affordable Sub 200 to their premium offerings.

For watch enthusiasts frustrated by the current state of the luxury watch market – with its waiting lists, price hikes, and artificial scarcity – Doxa offers a refreshing alternative. As Edöcs summarizes: "It's a tool watch, it's a functional watch. Have fun with it. It's not overpriced, it's solid, and it will be your companion for decades to come."

Experience this insightful conversation with one of watchmaking's most distinctive voices, and discover why Doxa continues to capture the imagination of both seasoned collectors and newcomers to the world of fine timepieces.

Visit Doxa Watches:

http://www.doxawatches.com

Transcript

Blake Rea: 0:02

Welcome to another episode of Lonely Wrist. Sitting in front of me is none other than Jan Edox, the CEO of Doxa. Welcome to the show, buddy.

Jan Edöcs: 0:15

Well, hi everyone. Thank you for the invite. Blake, Looking forward to a really wonderful, nice discussion and happy to be part of it, so let's go.

Blake Rea: 0:25

This has been a long time coming for me. I'm sure you know that I'm like a Doxa super fan and we started a watch club here in Vegas and you know I pulled the group because we were trying to get watch brands to come see us. And I pulled the group and I asked everybody which brand they wanted to see first okay, and it was none other than doxa.

Blake Rea: 0:50

So, uh, I felt like it would. You know, sometimes it's kind of hard to communicate with brands, and then I reached out, and then jackie jacqueline just just got right right back to me and next thing, you know, like, I think maybe like three months later she's here in in vegas and uh, and her, her passion for the brand is pretty much contagious. I think we have now maybe five or six guys in the group now that have. Doc says okay and uh and then yeah, and then yeah, I got my 300.

Jan Edöcs: 1:23

Oh, very good, Very nice yeah.

Blake Rea: 1:27

Yeah, let's talk about your leadership at Doxa. You know Doxa obviously has been kind of coming into the spotlight really recently.

Jan Edöcs: 1:43

I think you took over in. Was it 2019?

Blake Rea: 1:47

In 2019, the real kickoff was in 220. Then yes, okay, um, when you took over as ceo of doxa, what was your vision for the brand? Was there something that, specifically, like you, knew you had to change, or the vision is quite a simple one.

Jan Edöcs: 1:58

it uh, when you saw the history of the doxa a brand, uh, as a, but especially also what happened in the 60s of coming up and being one of the leaders in diamond watches it's a raw diamond, a raw diamond and said, okay, let's build it very carefully, go market by market, not try to overpush. But the main reason was that we have a lot of pretty much big fan base, also with collectors, but we need to be very careful because this fan base is getting older and older and older, and the main target was we need to bring this rich history, true history, forward to the next generation, and so we're happy to be able to have kicked this off in 2020. And we just follow our path as of today to bring in a next generation which, until today, we're very happy about the results, but still by far not terminated. We still have a lot of work ahead of us.

Blake Rea: 3:04

Yeah, I'd say too, too, especially you guys kind of you got into doxa when there was a huge resurgence. I mean, if you look at 2020, where the whole world shut down pretty much, um, and definitely the micro brands has been a more competitive space as of recently, um, there's not really a lot of heritage micro brands. Uh, you know a handful that have been researched over over the past I'd say five or six years. Uh, where would you feel that doxa kind of fits into that landscape of of heritage micro brands that are coming back to the spotlight?

Jan Edöcs: 3:39

so let's say that the micro brand, it's a definition by its own. It doesn't reflect really the size of a company at the end of the day, but, firmly, what was there? And still we give our full proof. We're not trying to please everyone, that's the main thing. It's in the last five years. We stick to the water, so we stay in the water, we stay around the water. We're not coming out now to make some pilot watches trying to please the car industry or whatever.

Jan Edöcs: 4:05

We know where we come from and by its own, this is a long way to go because a lot of markets are not as familiar with the brand as Doxa historically is known in the US, especially to collectors, and from that point of view we started to gradually build our retail network. We'll keep it very exclusive. I don't want to be on every corner with Doxa, despite being so-called micro-brand or whatever, and exclusivity for us pays off and especially now for the moment where the situation in the watch industry or economic global is a bit more tight. We see now the benefits that we were not overfloating the markets globally and to go everywhere, because you need to be able to control your business, you need to be able to control your production. You need to stay in strong alliance with your retail partners. For example, we never sold any online platform differently than our own online platform, so we said also no to a lot of business on the short term, and maybe now we get a little bit rewarded to pay tribute to our clear strategy.

Blake Rea: 5:21

And yeah, you guys are kind of nestled in between a luxury product, a luxury watch brand, and a micro brand. I, I know sometimes I've talked to some of the guys and said, hey, you know, uh, micro brand can can seem as a derogatory term uh, these days, but, um, a lot of luxury brands are are raising their prices aggressively and Doxa has kind of took a different approach. You guys have relatively remained accessible. I mean, if you look at the sub 200, you know that's about $1,000 for a Swiss-made diver, what's been. You know your approach to kind of being accessible and obviously it seems like you guys are going for more of a bigger push on e-com. Or are you guys going to be partnering more with your brick and mortar ADs?

Jan Edöcs: 6:16

No, so it's an exclusive base, what a lot of people do not know now.

Jan Edöcs: 6:20

Meanwhile, a bit more. I mean, doxa started its presence with diving watches online only, and we started in the year 2001 where the online business in the watch industry was even not existent. And today, what we do, we walk the same bridge as a lot of brands, but we just meet in the middle and a lot of brands are trying to go to the online business. This is a business by its own which we control and understand very well, and we just meet in the middle of the bridge, but we walk the other side, down of the bridge and opening exclusively retailers and retailers in a segmentation which does not at all represent the mass market. There we stick to our roots that we want to have an explosivity. Doxa has not only the history, doxa has a big advantage to have a case shape which is recognizable, with the cushion shape also going back to the history and since ever, when you go back in the 60s, doxa was all the time known to offer a lot of watch for a decent, very fair retail price.

Blake Rea: 7:23

So we stick to this I'm sorry, I've turned my mic off there. My dog, my dogs, uh, you guys are in a very unique position. Obviously. You guys have a super, super, super large fan base, um, and you have a very strong enthusiast community. Uh, you guys have have stayed in your lane for quite a while now. Uh, do you see doxa kind of just staying in that niche divers, colorful, fun, divers space or are you trying to kind of climb your way out and broaden the uh, the product portfolio to to reach a larger market?

Jan Edöcs: 8:06

There's a larger market. Listen, there's a lot of space around the water. You can do a lot of things. We're a bit more limited in the choice of materials, but again, we're not going to make pilot watches and all this. There's enough brands out there, but within the product range. Just now, in two and a half weeks, we're going to launch our next new model, where I know the hardcore bass Doxa fans will be pleased, and it's mixing with cultures. It's also to set up.

Jan Edöcs: 8:39

Doxa is going global, but maybe a little bit in a different way. Five years ago we just started in the Anglo-Saxophonic market. We could have sold right away in the Middle East. We could have sold right away in Asia. But you need to go further down in your strategy. Just to think to sell on the short term. First you need to find the right partner and you need to put a lot of effort into a market. Now certain markets are more easier for us, based on the culture, for example, like in Europe, like Italy, like the United States, where people have historically a reflection to water in history, to the maritime history, to diving history. But there's other markets which are not as developed and in generational understandings, not everyone stays so close to water. So it needs time to educate also other international markets. And do that first before you go in, because it will be a failure.

Blake Rea: 9:37

One thing that I've noticed that you guys do really well is you guys have a great story I mean beyond having a great product, and people really connect with the Doxa story, you know starting with George Dukaman, and you know testing in Lake Neuchatel with you know with Yakuza. How do you balance, kind of honoring that past while making sure the brand moves forward?

Jan Edöcs: 10:06

it's, it's to find the best possible way and we still learn all the time to combine the past with the today and the future. And in regard of products, with jacquie gusto uh, the swiss army at the time in 1968, where doxa became the official uh equipment watch for the divers in Switzerland. Then we showed tribute, what we did with Clive Kostler he was our biggest brand ambassador in the literary world which we honored him not with a limited collection, no, it's a number collection because we have a big token and appreciation for the family. Also, with Dirk, his son, we developed this product. It has taken us really over two years.

Jan Edöcs: 10:49

It would have been easy just to do a new dial, but when I look at the development, also with the launch we had then in New York in the New York Yacht Club, it was a real honor. Also in regard of products and with the Stonewash case, the Stonewash bracelet, looking back to the Clive Costler books, the history with Numa, that the boats which not only in the literary world, in real life Clive Costler was searching for shipwrecks and so our target was okay, stay loyal and try to make a watch in his honor who also looks like being down in the ocean for 500 years, and on the paper this is vastly said or thought, but do it in reality and produce the product. And also there I think you can all the time do better, but with this piece we could show also our capabilities in producing products.

Blake Rea: 11:49

And was that your concept to do the Clive Kussler kind of foundation watch with Dirk? Or was it something that they had approached you and you just said, hey, let's revive this partnership?

Jan Edöcs: 12:02

It was together because also the contact we had with the family and first of all, it's all the time also delicate. Don't run too after in showing honor. If you do, you need to do it in the right way. Knowing that Dirk still goes on his missions and shipwrecks and knowing how much money can be vastly lost when you lose a sonar and all this, I'm not going forward to hear. I said listen, we need to support this and this has no space with the launch for a limited edition. It's numbered and we opened a product line for him and hopefully for five, ten years, whatever it is, we can support indirectly Numa and the family and the hobby of his son. So we keep something very nice and very valuable going on for the future.

Blake Rea: 12:57

Yeah, that whole organization, numa, the Clive Kostler Collector Society Society, such a passionate group of individuals. I know when Jacqueline did an event here with them, I think it was.

Jan Edöcs: 13:13

October Last year, I think Yep.

Blake Rea: 13:16

She actually invited me out to come so I got to kind of see the whole brand from that perspective and to see all Dirk's friends and I was sitting at the same table with Dirk and just to see how everybody was so passionate about the brand. Obviously she does a lot of traveling by herself so she wanted kind of a resident watch nerd. So I'm here in Vegas so it just kind of was me driving up the street to come to come help her. Uh, but just to see how passionate dirk was to see. Um, I was, I was super curious about what happened to dirk's watch and then, you know, then we talked about the whole story on how it was lost and in transit.

Jan Edöcs: 14:06

And all this beautiful story. Such a story you can't plan ahead of time. It's impossible. This only runs on emotions.

Blake Rea: 14:16

Well, that's just a part of the industry. I mean, you never know what can happen. And I was curious because I asked Dirk. I was like do you, do you I hope you have your your father's watch? And he was like no, I don't, I don't. I was super sad to hear that. You know, I was like man, like that watch is, uh, is epic and uh, and I um the one that um, matthew McConaughey wore and the movie went up for auction. Uh, I think it was like maybe in 2010, 2012,.

Blake Rea: 14:57

Uh, that one ended up selling for like around $1,500. So I was like that's a pretty epic value for uh a movie worn matthew mcconaughey, you know, uh dirk pitt, you know yeah historical uh piece uh, which I thought was kind of cool.

Blake Rea: 15:16

But that whole, that whole community is so passionate and to see everybody who walked in, you know they pretty much would flash their docs uh at us, uh, and just to see how, how passionate people were um about I mean, I know you've done multiple different iterations of the the clive cussler um, I think you guys are on your second or third now, is that? Do I understand that correctly?

Jan Edöcs: 15:42

yeah, so that the situation is now we've limited. It was also our main target. It's not that if those number, at least just to support. And now for his birthday on the 15th of july, it's just we launched the 93rd limited edition and that's enough. On in honor of his birthday, uh, may have our plans again for this year and and at the end it's just really to show the capability, what you can do, and really also to support the family, and that's it.

Blake Rea: 16:13

Yeah, and how I mean that seemed like based on my understanding of that.

Blake Rea: 16:18

That whole partnership kind of came about organically because he worked at a dive shop and when he went on to write his books that that watch was a gift for my understanding um like a parting gift and then just kind of, uh, all of a sudden, just kind of just wore it every day and just fell in love with the watch, and then it wasn't like he became uh like a paid endorsement, uh like guy for the brand. It just seemed very organic it's organic.

Jan Edöcs: 16:53

But also overall, when you go back in history, this is what we're trying to tell also our younger generation and and not by far not everyone is a diver, but people today the younger, they can even not imagine to live without the iphone. A diver, not to have a dive computer. But going back to the 60s, diving watches was your safe tool. Your diving watch, mechanical watch, you were really depending on the information you got from dive watch. You better have a good quality and that where you can rely on because you're life dependent in those days on a watch. And today, the younger generation, you need to explain and despite of the mechanicality of a product still maintaining his rule, it's not like a new phone which loses its value in two years because there's a new adaptation. For us it's logical. Unfortunately I'm not so young anymore, but if I even spoke with my son, with my family, we may think, oh, they know. No, they don't know, they live a different life and that's a challenge for Doxa. But we have so much I don't know.

Jan Edöcs: 18:07

They live a different life and that's a challenge for Doxa, but we have so much I don't know if you say this now the US, we call it we have so much meat around the bone, you know, yeah, yeah, like Gosselaar, we have other stories with the Swiss army.

Jan Edöcs: 18:16

It doesn't stop where Doxa shows up, going back to the 60s and 70s, where, by free choice, the brand was chosen to support adventures, and at the time it was only because it was a brand, because people have really given confidence to the quality yeah, I can't disagree with you there.

Blake Rea: 18:40

um, I did like a a huge Doxa history video and I went down the rabbit hole and learning about your Grand Prix, the 1908 Grand Prix in Paris at the Grand Prix exhibition Super cool.

Jan Edöcs: 19:10

Ironically after I told that after I did the video, I started, you know, looking for assets for the edit. Oh, no way, I hear you all. This is the watch that won it for you guys.

Blake Rea: 19:24

So beautiful yeah congratulations I love it. So as I was doing the the history video, I was like man, this is such a a cool watch it just it feels like it should be in a museum, but I don't know why it's here at my house.

Jan Edöcs: 19:41

But and then I started that you found it. I mean this this is also what's happening now, of course, with the revival of Doxa. I mean prices are increasing in the secondary market that people start to look for historic pipe pieces. I just got back from Japan and I met the collector there. Unbelievably the value he has for Doxa and, please believe me, he's carrying other brands and he is a collector and also showed me some old pieces, uh, unbelievably nice. So, yeah, I can't complain. So I'm happy to, to, to, to, to be encountered of, of, uh, again, I repeat, a real history yeah, you guys, I um, I also went down the whole like erotic dial rabbit hole listen at the time, at the time when you go back, there was no social media.

Jan Edöcs: 20:41

Sometimes I wish today we wouldn't have social media. You could different. You could do different things, which is not explored in two seconds all over the world. You're talking to a national community, but still I remember all of the other brands, what you could do in the 80s and the 90s. So look at the design. Very interesting, funny design.

Blake Rea: 21:05

I'll have to show you when we're done recording our podcast, because I picked up one of those too um, you guys have kind of paved your identity and what really kind of.

Blake Rea: 21:15

I know this is silly and I found myself when I was doing my docs of history video. What kind of I leaned into a lot is a lot of other watch brands uh, just have orange dial. Some of them have orange dial watches just for the point of it being orange. You know, I'm really a huge fan of like purpose purpose built tool watches and you guys had a functional use for actually having an orange dial. You know, obviously, visibility underwater, you know, up to 60 meters. But now you guys are really known for having bold, colorful watches. Is that something that? And you guys were doing it really long before it became trendy? You know, but what would you say about color?

Jan Edöcs: 22:01

that resonates so much with your identity. In the 70s, in the 80s, it was all about functionality. The market bites on. There was very conservative. When I go back, I'm not mentioning brands, but everyone. Oh, the Tiffany blue. And the 80s, it was all about functionality. The market bites on. There was very conservative. When I go back, I'm not mentioning brands, but everyone. Oh, the tiffany blue, the new color. Some journalists came out. Hey, by the way, I look once at doxa, since when they used their aquamarine and so decades in this color it's, it's a dna factor since decades. All the colors also have their own names, like professional, like the caribbean, like the diving star for yellow. Uh, and there was functionality behind absolutely.

Blake Rea: 22:41

Um, you know, when you guys try and focus on it seems like now you've been, you know, with your. You had a 200 release pretty recently with the sub 200 t, and then you had the sub 200 t diamonds, yes, uh, I'm curious uh about how to, how that kind of came to be it seems. It seems kind of like uh, a departure or a different type of customer you're targeting there.

Jan Edöcs: 23:12

It's not at all a departure. Of course we understood that. Maybe the core base oh, what is this? So, first of all, going back, when we go back in the history, we have other brands with very famous dive watches and beginning of the 70s you saw them already with diamonds on the bezel. So why can doxa buy? It's all not doing that. Now what people need to understand. You approach international markets and what is nice, when you see at the retail network of doxa, which is very exclusive, we are not on a bc level in our retail business, we are in premium and this has a reason most likely, where doxa is presented, doxa is one of the most affordable brands.

Jan Edöcs: 23:52

Now, a certain demand or certain region like the Middle East, that you can grow a brand. You have end consumers. They just do not buy a watch for $1,000. They love the brand, they just don't buy it. And you need to feed and you need to adapt the local mentality to your DNA and what you can make out of it, how far you can stretch it, and a lot when you see, for example, diamonds to 50, we still maintain the functionality of the watch. We do not have a full white diamond. We have sealed the 13-color color stones and someone who really wants you can turn the bezel and you still find the functionality on this diamond piece. Now, I suppose not a lot of end consumers will do, but this has clearly given a signal in certain markets and like this you become global and of course it was more done for the Middle East.

Jan Edöcs: 24:49

Logically, yeah, we're selling them. So if I become, in their language, also a brand, and what is smart with it? We still have the cushion shape, we still bring our DNA to the end consumer, maybe with a light different taste, and it shows the flexibility also for the brand and the product. Again, for the retail price you quoted with the carrots you have it. Then they go again, yeah, but that's very affordable. So even on that level it's very affordable what we offer. So this will not be the main route, but here and there we may not position the brand differently, of course not. But uh, you adapt and you need to show your flexibility to local cultures yeah, I guess that makes sense.

Blake Rea: 25:44

I never really kind of thought about. I mean, obviously you're thinking about things from a higher level and you kind of know the markets. Um, in october I was in istanbul and you guys onboarded a new partner there.

Blake Rea: 25:58

Some of my friends at abt sat yes uh, and when I went there, um, some of the guys there were begging me to wear my watch to istanbul, so I brought my sub 300 and then, um, at the time when we went there, they had some type of event and there was maybe like 10 or 15 or 20 people in the shop and and everybody uh was super stoked to to see the brand for the first time.

Blake Rea: 26:31

And then I found out that they were getting ready to become a dealer for you guys and now I've seen that they now carry your products and they're such a good group of people out there and it's cool to see how you guys are kind of jumping into those markets because, uh, when I was out there, there's been a lot of talk about, uh, a luxury tax, um, where it's not on gold, it's not on diamonds, it's just on watches, which is so weird, um, because to me I I love to buy watches in this sample um, it's just they've got such a good market there, uh, for the products and uh, and I was sad to hear about that, but I also was glad to see that they onboarded you guys, because the amount of the amount of like positive feedback that came from me passing my watch around and I I don't think I saw it for maybe like an hour and a half, like I literally was like hey, where the hell is my watch at?

Blake Rea: 27:35

And then I start walking around and some guy's wearing it, like I'm just they said we are.

Jan Edöcs: 27:41

We are so happy to have them on board, but also they have been waiting I don don't know, for almost two years. And also this is a proof that because we developed ourselves region by region and region, we had other really highly esteemed customer. They came to Geneva oh, I'm ready, I want to place an order. I said, listen, we're not yet ready for your region. And they said what do you mean? I want to buy, I can no, please wait.

Jan Edöcs: 28:13

And this is a bit contradictory. First of all, but once we choose a retailer, we stick to this relationship. And when you see, for example, in the us for the moment you have 17 point of sales. We're not growing that business in the US in retail presence to be overloaded and to be on every corner and most probably, despite the retail price, to have 200 retailers. That's exactly what we are not going to do.

Jan Edöcs: 28:42

And today, the business model when the sun is shining you can sell a lot, not for dog sun. But now it's not shining anymore the sun, now you have rain. And for me, a brand, despite micro brand or a big brand, it's all the time how you prove yourself when there's a rain out there, not when the sun is shining and for us now, of course, maybe a little bit more easier. First of all, we defend the retailers. That's why, also in Istanbul, for the one point of sight, in Turkey, we will not overload Istanbul or Turkey or the United States, other markets with tens or hundreds of shops who won't do it, because, like this, the retailer is also more motivated.

Jan Edöcs: 29:34

First, he has no competition online we are not selling to any online platform and then, of course, the retailer is more motivated and at the end of the day, you can control your pricing. That's all about short-term businesses. Pricing are falling. If you go to mid to the longer term, you have much more big chances to control your distribution and to control pricing, which at the end means the brand maintains its value. Simple.

Blake Rea: 30:08

That makes sense and I've really like thought about the economical side of it To give you kind of, I guess, some user experience For me.

Blake Rea: 30:20

It was really hard for me to get hands on with your watches before I decided to buy one, okay so like I went to atlanta and you know their mayors has has an account with you guys, and so I called it and I said, hey, uh, do you guys have doxes on your website? Like, how can I like what do you have in? Oh, we don't have them. Same thing here. And, uh, in vegas, watch the switzerland like I ever watched the switzerland, like 20 minutes away from my house, and you know they sell your products but you just you can't get hands-on with them.

Blake Rea: 31:00

Um, and so that that becomes, I guess, an auxiliary challenge that people want to get hands-on with their product. People want to see, of course, product and watches are kind of like, uh, they're becoming kind of like shoes, right, like, a lot of people don't buy shoes online because they want to try it on, you know, and uh, obviously watches being a little bit more expensive than a pair of shoes, but you do have that longer sales process that has to be kind of filled. So how, how are you guys gonna kind of, uh, I guess, address that? It seems like now you guys are getting a little bit more active in the community in terms of going to, to festivals and things like that it's not active.

Jan Edöcs: 31:46

It's again in exclusive retail presence, first when we started, and also in esteem collaboration with watch of switzerland. First, the first two years we didn't take any other retailer we could. We didn't. First we wanted to learn and we learned a lot in the collaboration. Now, and from that moment on, it's to balance off. We started also with independent retail. I think as of today we have 17 doors in the US this year with a great team we have in the US, also in the lead of Jackie. We may open another 13 to 15. That's it, and the touching feel on retail is important, but it's easier to choose the good partner instead to go everywhere than the touch and feel is granted, but where service, where the environment, where the experience is not valued enough. So we decided for the other way around, may go a little bit longer, but I believe this will be more valuable and more solid for the long term longer, but I believe this will be more valuable and we're solid for the long term.

Blake Rea: 32:53

Yeah, let's talk to you about uh. Obviously, when you took over in 2019, you know, 2020 covid came around and it kind of shook the whole industry. Um, it seems like the entire watch industry had a lot of supply chain issues. So I'm curious, kind of, to take a step back and talk to us about how Doxa kind of navigated those supply chain issues and how did it bring you to be a stronger brand?

Jan Edöcs: 33:22

now so well, listen, this was. I cannot say it was fortunate, that's the wrong saying. But in the beginning of the 20s we just started to open up for a street tailor, but of course our online presence with our own website was ready. So I never had believed that sales were so much increasing through that problem. So we as a brand could clearly benefit of it. Through that problem. So we as a brand could clearly benefit of it. And with the supply channels, on the same time not going too much detail, but also with the owner's family. We know produce watches, we really understand the supply chain and we're producing in the family over 50 years watches. So it was a challenge but was by far not a massive problem. And also, to be honest, in 220, our volumes were also not there yet to be defended, which has started, so it was by coincidence, at the end of the day, not bad for us.

Blake Rea: 34:35

You're starting to see now, with a kind of push for more of a consumer consumer ownership. What I mean when I say that is, let's just say, I buy a doxa from windsor, right, windsor jewelers those are good, good friends of mine. Um, I'm not a doxa customer in a weird way. I'm a windsor customer, that I own a doxa in a weird way, and that's the reason why I've talked about in the past these eight you know these, these brands are opening their own corporate boutiques and the reason why brands are even pushing for in-house is for that exact same reason. Because if you develop an in-house caliber, you're not going to send it to a watchmaker to get a service, you're going to send it back to the brand. From my perspective, it's not something that I see Doxa really kind of participating in, because you want to keep that value proposition high and costs down. But do you ever see Doxa creating an in-house caliber or going into that whole direction?

Jan Edöcs: 35:43

No, why should we? We get this question a lot and then it's very simply explained. A real diver's watch doesn't have a see-through and if I want to create my own movement then at least I would like to be able to show it. But a real diver's watch, maintaining the quality, if you would like to have a see-through, your watch would be very thick to maintain the functionality of it. So for doxa, the functionality is the main issue. It's not about we have very solid movements and and uh, but it's not something which end consumer is asking us oh, and even decorate, I will move it without the see-through, but it's not the main. Propose and if I would go out, oh, I have my caliber, you mentioned the sub 200 per 1000, oh, I have my. I have now my own movement and I'm asking you 4000, what would happen for that? Please go to other brands. This is not I. I I should not try to compete. And there's beautiful products, there's beautiful brands out there in a price range for four or five thousand. That's not where doxa is going. And because the demand is not there. And still, when you see the retail network now you mentioned windsor 75 to 80 percent of our retailer. All the information is available. They have premium brands, the most expensive brands, which they decided to take on Doxa, which is very great for the image of the brand.

Jan Edöcs: 37:20

The reason behind was also an end consumer, as you said, can be with Wimpsun. Maybe they're walking into the store not with the idea to buy a Doxa, but they walk out with a Doxa. Still today, these customers, for how long they wait until they get served, it's a great feeling. They walk in First of all, are you allowed to get your watch? Oh, you need to fulfill already many, many lists. And second, you are allowed to pay in advance? Oh, thank you very much. And then, thirdly, oh, you will be delivered in one to two years.

Jan Edöcs: 37:53

Great, the customer is happy and he needs to wait. So he's walking out the store without a watch. Now Doxa comes into picture, even though they know, they heard about or they even didn't hear about, but the premium brands they're helping also us because Doxa is something with the cushion shape which is recognizable. It stands for a DNA. It's not difficult to explain Doxa. Then the end consumer gets a wonderful presentation of the salespeople because they have the interest not to let the customer walk out without the watch or just with a goody gift, and then they start to know the brand. At the end of the day they will ask okay, what's the retail price?

Jan Edöcs: 38:35

it's 1500, so make me pardon how much yeah, like saying and despite the end consumer and we know a non-matching brand we have a lot of a big fan base for their so-called second watch during the afternoon on the beach. They're a premium brand. They'll never wear it in the afternoon. And meanwhile we know Politically we're issuing no problem. We're not in a group, we're a family business. We're not in a group, we're a family business. We're not taking business away, we're adding on business to certain clientele, which then the retailer is happy, we are happy, the market is happy and like this you can gradually grow your business, because our biggest ambassadors it's not we as a brand, but we put as money in as advertising.

Blake Rea: 39:35

It's our end consumer and it's our retailers. Yeah, I mean I couldn't have said it better myself. A lot of times when people ask me what the best value in watchmaking.

Jan Edöcs: 39:55

I refer to the sub 200.

Blake Rea: 39:56

I personally also have the Sub 200, the limited edition that you guys did with Art of Time. Yep, when Jackie was here, I purchased that watch and I got my serial number, my birthday and my dad passed away on the 22nd, so I have the 22nd of that watch.

Jan Edöcs: 40:12

You got your number.

Blake Rea: 40:13

Yeah, I got my number and then it's just such a beautiful watch. The dial is insane. So, yeah, I'm super happy with that and I brought it to the Clive Cussler event and Jackie wore it for the whole event because she had never seen it Did she give it back to you. I had to beg her to get it back, but eventually I did get it back. Okay, good.

Jan Edöcs: 40:41

I'm just joking.

Blake Rea: 40:43

You know how much she likes that watch. I'm sure she's told you.

Jan Edöcs: 40:47

Well, listen, be pleased what's coming out, but it exactly reflects the Also listen, we still also have a lot to learn, but I think we didn't do heavy mistakes in the last five years. And also you mentioned it at the beginning of our conversation no significant price increase. I think in five years we increased the sub 200 for $100 because the moving price went up, but in relation, it is not every year 10%, 10%, 10% because it brings your product into a different price range and you also need to be reasonable for the business. I'm too long in this industry where I've seen a lot coming and a lot going. I'm too long in this industry where I've seen a lot coming and a lot going. Don't compete as a small boutique brand to big marketing budgers. You will just fail.

Jan Edöcs: 41:38

And this starts with watches retailing as a four or five thousand. It's going up the end consumer, then the one who explained to you, then another process process starts to happen in the brain of an end consumer. But I heard a lot oh, the first price level from $1,000 to $3,000, that's the deadly zone in the watch industry. Well, talk to them today. Who told this two years ago?

Blake Rea: 42:05

They would be happy to be back there years ago, they would be happy to be back there. Yeah, I mean you, you guys, and was where? Where was the strategy that came that you said, hey look, we want to have a watch. And some watch brands they reverse engineer, they say I want a watch that's a thousand dollars, build it for me. Right, I want to. I want to target the more entry door to Swiss luxury. And then, you know, the sub 200 came right. Is that how it happened for you guys? Or where did you decide to step down into trying to get a watch around $1,000? Because it's.

Jan Edöcs: 42:44

In understanding our business. There's a lot of people out there. They have, as an end consumer, a lot of experience in collecting watches, all this, but in producing watches this doesn't start in the paper you mentioned. You need to know your supplies, as from the beginning you know what this product more or less will cost and then you can fit okay. But if you start in paper, I'll put this on this retail price and then I will see it can't work directly like this, because you know exactly the margins we as a brand, we need. We know what the margins our esteemed retail partners need. So that's based on experience. To to we also had beautiful ideas. Beautiful, which is. Then I immediately knew this will be too expensive for the market. We will get, we will get complimented. Finally, dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum, but too not affordable. I'm entering another market. So, whatever we do, that's why I'm so excited now where I think we will scratch the market again heavily in regard.

Blake Rea: 43:52

How are they capable to do this one now again, how I yeah, I, I asked myself that you know, and I it seems like is is that, is that the strategy that you want to get people into the ecosystem for doxa at the sub 200? And then, oh cool, let me get a sub 600 or let me get a sub 300, t or like, is that that has to be the strategy, right?

Jan Edöcs: 44:17

first of all show tribute to, to, uh, to the brand and the past. Now the challenge is if, if I talk to collectors, they don't see the brand extremely the same way like now the younger generations. And when you go on social media, sometimes you get a lot of compliments and the hardcore divers oh how could you do that? But then they don't think about the younger generation. The younger generation have a different approach and from our end consumer, if we have 20 percent who are real divers, then this technically would still be a high number. We have desk divers. We have a next generation. They look at it differently.

Jan Edöcs: 44:56

And if I talk I mentioned this in some interviews if I go to a 20, 25-year-old guy and I'm mentioning the name Jacques-Yves Cousteau, his answer will be is this a new player from Paris Saint-Germain? So, and that's so. You need to be cool. You'll be fairly priced. You need to have a history. Bring out the fun product which fulfills your need, which is something which you can afford in your pocket, and then you grow from there and people won't forget and the functionality is there and Doxa is fun.

Blake Rea: 45:34

Indeed, it is, especially with all the dial colors. Um, you guys have experimented. Now you have the sub 300 carbon. Um, you have the, the beta, and you guys are kind of having a little bit of fun and still kind of sticking to your core, uh, your core, uh, silhouette, your case silhouette. And you know, if you look at now the, you did a sub 600, I believe, in titanium at one point how?

Blake Rea: 46:06

how has that kind of shaped the way that you guys develop watches in the future? Because I know working with titanium is super hard to do. I know working with carbon is a pain in the ass.

Jan Edöcs: 46:20

So this is exactly where you reflect the carbon, the sub 300, when you see that the case by itself is only weighting 44 grams. So this is exactly also then consumer wants to go to a retailer. I'm not buying this online. What does it mean to have 44 grams on my wrist, you know, as a watch case? So that's exactly where you combine the past with the future. Salt water unfortunately doesn't love every material, but the carton does. It works with a titanium case and you can still explore roots down there. So it is not on one side that we just open up the history books. We can pay tribute, but to combine it with the today and tomorrow, of course you talk about different materials can be different new design interpretations where you can technically still recognize an older model, and this is what we will launch now, in three weeks, exactly where we played with the history going back, but the product is completely something new.

Blake Rea: 47:26

You guys are launching that near Watches and Wonders, is that right?

Jan Edöcs: 47:30

Yeah, so we're outside. We are also, since after COVID we're all the time at the Borybosh Hotel and people know exactly where to find us Meanwhile become our home during exhibitions. I'm very happy to be there. Nice view on the lake, not getting green, and we can enjoy, hopefully, the nice weather much. It's all the time a battle what to expect. In Switzerland Last year was great, but the year before we had snow, so this is not in our and enjoy hopefully the nice weather march.

Blake Rea: 48:00

It's all the time a battle of what to expect. In Switzerland, Last year was great, but the year before we had snow, so this is not in our hands. Yeah, I'm looking forward.

Jan Edöcs: 48:06

I'll be at you guys are having a cocktail party at the Beauvau Raj April 3rd exactly.

Blake Rea: 48:10

Yes, I'll be there. And then, yeah, I've got an appointment with you guys to see the new novelty.

Jan Edöcs: 48:17

I'm very happy to meet you there. It's also when, you see, we extended now our presence there. This is also, you know, in a smooth way. We started one suite, then we took a second one and now we expanded our presence to a third one. I think now half of the hotel floor is now Doxa, where we implement. Also, we're going back and you will find a museum there. When you walk in in one suite, you start in 1889 and you will end up in 225.

Blake Rea: 48:45

Wow, that's going to be awesome. I'm super excited. This is my first time coming to Watches and Wonders, so I don't really know what to expect. I know I need to sleep a lot before I get there, uh, so that way I can survive because of the craziness it just depends, how many days beforehand you arrive.

Blake Rea: 49:07

So yes, I, I fly out on the 31st and I arrive on the first, and then I'll be there for 8 days and I guess you could say that I'm lucky, because there's been an illness going around in my household. So, like last night, I was just like cooped up in bed like this. I'm like, oh shit, well, at least I got it now and not in Switzerland but okay, of course you have 9 hours time difference.

Jan Edöcs: 49:34

that's more hard to take it on than six hours. The East Coast is a bit easier, but nine hours yeah, I was just in Japan also had eight hours. That's where you start to feel that firmly you're not getting younger.

Blake Rea: 49:49

You guys have a few accounts in Japan too, don't you? You guys have a few accounts in Japan too, don't you?

Jan Edöcs: 49:54

So Japan is just to be announced, very soon. Also, since two years, people said why are you not in Japan, please believe me, we could have been and we're preparing now the market entrance the same way as we do everywhere else. Very exclusive, please believe me. But the retail browser choosing Doxa. There's almost not a better way which you could do. And when you just want to enter market fast, you will not get the good ones in the beginning and the good ones.

Jan Edöcs: 50:31

There's a reason why you suppose they're the good ones. They're the strong ones, the most solid ones, the most. And the good ones. There's a reason why you suppose they're the good ones. They're the strong ones, the most solid ones, the most. Because these retailers, they have been following us since five years and it's like as a brand and to be patient. This can also cost you money on the short term, but it's like a train leaving a station, the first retailers they will jump on. And if a brand decides to sell to those retailers in the first lagoon on a train leaving the station, then you go much more into the mass. But I promise you the good ones they will follow this train First. They will see, okay, how much patience they have. What are they doing in the years to come? Are they solid? What are they telling? But when they see that the train leaving the station remains with the last two, three magoons, and then the train has come, what is happening then?

Blake Rea: 51:28

That's pretty deep, pretty deep, no pun intended, pretty deep, no pun intended. I'm curious about, maybe, your take on the industry a little bit. You're starting to see watchmaking trends that are overhyped. What is a trend that you think is overhyped currently?

Jan Edöcs: 51:52

You know what the trend is. Every five to 10 years it goes back to the same what it has been before in distribution. Economically, to watch industry now, not for Doxa. Now, of course you have some economical challenges globally. It's not easy, but our industry, beloved industry, is very Christ resistant. So you have a lot of dreamers stepping in when I told you, when the sun is shining and here I'm not talking just swiss brands who anyhow will make it and appreciate, but you had a lot of dreamers in the last year, stepping into the markets, so-called to pretend I sell online. Uh, let's see where they will be in two, three years. But it's going back. Uh, it's going back and you see it, despite the changes with the upcoming social media and all this, but the business rule maintains the same. So now, the next one to a year, you will see a little bit of clean out and then the zone is getting back.

Blake Rea: 52:51

I'm also curious because of consumer patterns, especially in the watch industry, are changing rapidly. What do you think the biggest opportunity for Doxa is in the future, considering that the consumer buying patterns are changing?

Jan Edöcs: 53:09

So that we are still at the beginning stage. A lot of end consumers they do not know us yet. That we are still at the beginning stage. A lot of end consumers, they do not know us yet. So the the degree of potential end consumer despite, we will go our path. For us, sometimes, for my team and all this, it's, it's, it's uh with doxa and with the design you can't forget. There's again a lot of people out there they don know, they're just on the way to discover.

Jan Edöcs: 53:37

And when I see the numbers where we increased our business, when we start to 20, where we stand today, it's a very nice growth, but it's an organic growth and it's not a crazy growth. And let's see where we are in three to five years. And we started five years ago. That's why, in 2020, with one point of sale globally Today we have 180 globally, but very good ones, and I know exactly where I will limit it one day globally and Doxa will never have 500 retailers globally and Doxa will never have 500 retailers, but I can tell you the three to 350s we have globally will treat them very nice and they will do good business and will keep the exclusivity on a certain extent, of course. Granted, I will never own a private jet, I don't need to, I'm happy. Also, the family, but we have a business which we can control, where we are proud of and creating a family, and this gives a brand, a karma, which young people like a lot. Don't come and go, be still around.

Blake Rea: 54:53

I think that's the right approach, because a lot of the the brands they just say here's our product, go sell it. But it's more than that. It's it's educating the sales staff, is supporting the sales staff is, I mean, thankfully, you guys can, can buy straps on your website, but you know other brands they don't. They don't do that, or um. So it's a very collaborative process between the rep that you're working with and the sales professional, um and you're. You start to notice that the brands that really embrace education, supporting the sales staff and and giving that that value prop and are passionate about the brand, those are the brands that do well.

Jan Edöcs: 55:42

Yeah, and don't be too much pushy. And again, stick to your partners. You're not allowed. And again, not that my children tell me I'm already like a grandfather I'm not, please believe me. But I'm telling them listen, our industry, the world is small, and never forget also the other people. You will meet at least twice in our industry. Don't take everything out in once. You will meet twice. Now you can do out of it what you want.

Blake Rea: 56:21

So I have two more questions for you, because I don't want to take up too much of your time, one of them being a leader in the industry, and the watch industry has shifted so much, much, especially within the past five years. I look back five years and I just say, holy shit, the industry is totally different now than it was then. So and I know you don't have a crystal ball, but you know, if you did, what do you think in the next 10 years? You know would be a major shift forward in the watch industry a major shift in the watch industry.

Jan Edöcs: 57:03

I think that, uh, when we see about the value I'm talking especially about the swiss watch industry right, this will even become stronger. And I think there's a certain and I'm talking now about our end consumer people, the younger generation, they're getting more and more affected about the health, the good living, work-life balance Sometimes it doesn't help in the office, but it is Right but also the responsibility they carry for our planet. And there, when you see the consumption behavior for the moment, what all needs electricity. You can have your smartwatch, you can have your phone, you can have electricity. Smartwatch you can have your phone, you can electricity here and there.

Jan Edöcs: 57:58

And when you really go further down, just now, of course I need to defend my industry, but a mechanical watch which still rolls on the same technical ideas 200 years ago, which has changed the silicon with the thing materials changed, but the idea of mechanical movement is over 200 years ago, which has changed the silicon with the thing materials changed, but the idea of mechanical movement is over 200 years old and this is not eating up electricity. If you treat your watch well, you don't need to charge it. It doesn't take anything away of this planet. And I think there the watch industry has a lot to play to short-term consumption, because a product which we produce with other brands maintains its value. It's not getting old, it will even increase in value as an item, but it increases also in value emotionally. So I'm not at all worried about the swiss watch industry. That's yeah I, uh.

Blake Rea: 58:58

I personally I'm not either. Uh, if you could predict the future of dive watches now, uh, where do you think the industry will be in the next five to ten years?

Jan Edöcs: 59:13

it will be. It depends. There's a lot of brands. They they have one called also dive watch in their assortment and then they have the pilot watches. Whatever how far they will stick to to to please to try to take the approach, please anyone. That's their decision.

Jan Edöcs: 59:30

I think the amount of dive watches I call it dive watches equal sport watches. I think the amount of dive watches I call it dive watches, equal sport watches will increase because we have a lot of markets that are not yet in the water. For example, an important market for the watch industry is China, but diving people do not go into the water there, it's just the young generation. And so China is what kind of market? Why did I decide not to go to China? It will cost me a lot, a lot to bring nothing against Chinese to bring them into the water. They will come. Japan is different with their maritime history, so I think there's still a lot of potential for dive watches, sport watches, which sticks to a fair price to look sporty and sporty to adventure. It doesn't need just the water. It can be different, but this demand will increase yeah, amazing um.

Blake Rea: 1:00:45

Final one is, and I think maybe you've probably already summarized it, but there's going to be some people that are listening to our podcast that may may have never gotten hands-on with a doxa or maybe not familiar with the brand um, and if you could essentially summarize the value you know, your, your, your ethos, the doxa ethos, to them, how would you do?

Jan Edöcs: 1:01:12

so. So it's simple Go back to the roots. Over 50 years, doxa was of the first. It was not the first diving watch, but we were the first one with the helium wall who, in the sixties, put so much effort into make diving watches much better in regard of functionality. And and still today it's a tool watch. It's a functional watch. Have fun with it. It's not overp tool watch, it's a functional watch. Have fun with it. It's not overpriced, it's solid and it will be your companion for decades to come. If you like it, then you're welcome to discover it in one of our retailers, online, whatever and just go there and touch it. And once you touch the product, then you can make your own opinion. And I would be really surprised if someone would tell me pricing design doesn't match in a fair relation.

Blake Rea: 1:02:07

Yeah, I couldn't have said it better myself, especially when you look at the value between the 300T and the 200. I mean, like, come on, you know 1,200 meters or water resistance. Like you just can't beat that for the 300T, considering it's less than two grand, you know, yeah.

Jan Edöcs: 1:02:28

And again, it's going back to solidity. Technically, you could ask yourself who can find out who is timing for two, 300 meters. Technically, you could ask yourself who can find out who is timing for two, three hundred meters. Listen, it's at the value for money and money for value. It's both this and this is our karma. And then, on top of it, to have a certain exclusivity, this depends then on the aura of an end consumer. Do I want to buy a product which is I step into a restaurant which is considered as a fashion brand and I can't distinguish myself between, because Doxa is also a karma watch you give something out of. If you wear it, it stands for your character, it stands for your. What do you want to show to your environment Not only to you, of course. That depends on the personality, but you give a certain signal to your environment, which then, I tell, will be very positive. But this is up to everyone's own decision.

Blake Rea: 1:03:37

Thank you so much for spending just over an hour with us. I thoroughly enjoyed this. Um as I'm. I said at the beginning of the podcast, I'm I'm a super doxa fan. I think it's one of my favorite favorite watch brands. I don't I. You can go back and listen to every single podcast I've recorded and I don't say that very often.

Jan Edöcs: 1:03:56

I really appreciate, like really really we appreciate and we welcome you with open hearts to our booth.

Blake Rea: 1:04:04

I will certainly be there. I will certainly see you here in the next couple of weeks and, yeah, anything you need from me, I will always be a fan.

Jan Edöcs: 1:04:16

Thank you very much for your support, also to your audience. I was very happy to have this conversation already with you and I'm sure it will be followed then with our new launch. It will and I'm also looking for the hardcore Doxa fans that they will get a nice goodie I, yeah, I'm looking.

Blake Rea: 1:04:38

I'm looking forward to seeing the new release. Um, I'm definitely going to be covering it. So, uh, we are a couple weeks out, so by the time this podcast drops, uh, I will have already gotten hands on with it, and it will, uh, there will already be press out there.

Jan Edöcs: 1:04:54

So, thank you for coming on, y'all, I'm glad to have met you and have safe travels, and it was good talking to you yeah, yeah, I'll see you on the other side thank you very much. Stay well regards vegas. Bye.