Lonely Wrist: All Things Watches & Horology
Lonely Wrist is a podcast that goes inside the movement, bringing you inside the world of watches through candid conversations with the people who drive it forward.
Each episode features in-depth interviews with industry insiders including Executives, master watchmakers, designers, collectors, content creators, and historians offering rare insights into the passion, precision, and business behind every timepiece.
From legacy brands to innovative microbrands, from movement architecture to marketing strategy, we explore the many layers of horology through the voices of those shaping its past, present, and future.
Whether you're a seasoned collector or just beginning your journey into watches, Lonely Wrist offers a unique perspective on the artistry, culture, and the industry of watches, one episode, and one insider, at a time.
Tune in bi-weekly and hear the stories ticking behind every Lonely Wrist.
Lonely Wrist: All Things Watches & Horology
From Australia to the World: Building Panzera Watches with Andrew Herman
What happens when two Australian watch enthusiasts decide to challenge the status quo of luxury timepieces? Andrew Herman, co-founder of Panzera Watches, reveals the remarkable journey of building a global watch brand that's sold 300,000 watches across 100 countries without traditional retail channels.
Founded in 2009 with partner Roger Cooper, Panzera emerged from a simple frustration: quality watches were too expensive for regular collectors. Their solution? Cut out the middlemen, eliminate retail markups, and deliver watches directly to consumers. The result is a brand that offers bold, rugged timepieces at prices that don't require a second mortgage.
Andrew takes us behind the scenes of Panzera's evolution from their first Flieger-style watch to their current diverse lineup spanning Australian-assembled and Swiss-manufactured collections. We explore how they've maintained a distinct design identity—characterized by bold styling, exceptional water resistance, and versatile aesthetics—while expanding globally through e-commerce.
The conversation delves into fascinating territory as Andrew explains how Panzera achieves what seems impossible: delivering watches worldwide within seven days, providing 24/7 customer support, and offering Swiss-quality timepieces without the typical Swiss price tag. Unlike many luxury brands that inflate prices to cover celebrity endorsements and expensive boutiques, Panzera focuses on product quality and value.
For watch enthusiasts tired of babying precious timepieces, Panzera offers something refreshing—watches designed to be worn everywhere, from board meetings to beach adventures. As Blake puts it: "A watch you don't have to keep up with—it's designed to keep up with you." Whether you're new to watch collecting or a seasoned enthusiast, this conversation reveals how disruption in the watch industry benefits consumers who value quality, design, and accessibility.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of the Lonely Wrist podcast. I am your host, of course. As always, you've come to know me, blake Ray, and today we've got a special guest lined up. We are actually sitting down with Andrew Herman, who is one half of Panzera Watches. Founded in 2009 with his partner, roger Cooper, panzera is an Aussie brand at heart that is built on bold design, prioritizing rugged performance while not straying from accessible pricing. Rugged performance while not straying from accessible pricing. So, without further ado, let me bring andrew into the conversation.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the show, andrew hi blake, great to be here.
Speaker 1:Thanks for inviting me yeah, yeah, hopefully that does some justice for you. So I was like trying to think of what to say so, so funny story um, I've owned a panzer watch and I didn't know that. Yeah, I didn't tell anybody, I didn't tell anybody from from the pr agency. But, um, yeah, well, I kind of want you to start from the beginning. You know, 2009 like what inspired the creation of the brand. You know?
Speaker 2:okay, well, look, uh, I was a bit of a watch fan since I've been a teenager, so I've always collected watches, um, and so has a good friend of mine, roger cooper, who we're both friends for many years and we're discussing it one day. You know the fact that we love collecting watches. But one of the frustrating things about collecting watches I think everyone experiences this is the high cost. I mean, you can probably buy one a year, maybe one every few months if you're wealthy, but some people only buy one a lifetime because the high cost makes it very prohibitive to purchase. And so we decided well, what about we start a brand? To see if we can, not a brand, but to start a business that we could actually source and find relatively low costs but high quality watches that we could start to build a collection from in more volume. So that's how the business started.
Speaker 2:We got together. Roger was looking to start something new, he was working in the retail space and we put our heads together and thought this could be good. I actually had recently purchased a German brand of watch that was quite cost-effective. We thought why don't we try and distribute those? And we approached that brand and they said yes. So we actually started off as a watch distribution company back in 2009.
Speaker 2:It wasn't long after that, though. We decided, well, why don't we take this to the next level and see if we can produce our own watches? And what we did was we produced our own watches and found they were selling three or four to one what we were, the models that we were actually sourcing from Germany. So we realized we had a bit of a success there, but in the early days we were, you know, doing the traditional model of, you know, going to retailers, going to distributors, going to watch shows, trying to get people to take up watches and put them in stores, and it worked to a certain point, but it made us realise that the one objective which we really had, which was to produce watches cost-effectively high-quality watches cost-effectively was that the major overhead we were facing was going through the traditional retail channels, which is go to a distributor, go to a retailer, let them put them in the window, you know, hopefully they'll sell, and all of those parts have costs associated with them.
Speaker 2:All of those have margin, and we thought if we could, you know, maybe get a more direct model, we could achieve our goal of producing more cost-effective watches without sacrificing the quality. And that's when the wonderful world of e-commerce came along and we decided to go direct of producing more cost-effective watches without sacrificing the quality. And that's when the wonderful world of e-commerce came along and we decided to go direct, and that's where the whole thing really took off for us.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I'm curious about you know from what I read, your first watch was a Flieger style watch. Is that accurate? That's correct. How did that Fl fleeker watch evolve into? You know what is now one of the air collections?
Speaker 2:that was an interesting one. Um, what we did was we went out and we sort of found that a lot of the concepts of fleeker watches were actually public domain designs. So effectively, they were built for the German Air Force and European Air Forces during the war and that actually retained that look which a lot of brands were using. And we thought, well, if we do that, a, it'll be recognisable and B, it was a really nice design watch, very clean, very simple. So we used a classic Flieger. But since then we've evolved that into much, much more of our own design and more recently we've added things like gmt functions. But it was originally designed to be true to the original flieger design, which went back to the 1930s. We thought that has a really nice heritage to it and uh, but also something that people can affiliate, associate with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And, and, yeah, those fleeker designs, I mean, uh, yeah, they were, I guess, intellectual property of the. I guess, yeah, it was government, right. I mean they said, hey, look here, take this design language and bring it to scale. Um, funny, funny, funny.
Speaker 1:And going back to kind of what I mentioned, um, you guys have been doing tremendous work and and I don't say that very, very often, but you guys were one of the, I think, like the third watches that I owned, wow, and that's, and it was super cool. And I can't remember exactly how I found you, but, um, you know, there, there wasn't a lot of independent micro brand offerings at the time. When I got into watches, like in the early 2010s, um, you know, there was nobody really out there, right, you know it was. It became cool to start a watch brand in like the later 2020 and so on and so forth. Right, so everybody seems to have this COVID-related watch story, but I think I was looking for, like a Panerai alternative.
Speaker 1:You know, something with bold, clean design. You know that has you, you know, great build quality, great finishing, and I ended up, uh, with an aquamarine. Yes, 45, that's something what's still today actually. I think I think you guys had something called like was it like the scent was? Did this? Do I remember that correctly? Was it like?
Speaker 1:the awkward yeah yeah, yeah, that that was like that sounds familiar. Um, and yeah, yeah, I I don't know exactly what happened I had some some weird watch, uh, some weird watch griefs where I've lost watches and I've had some issues where watches gotten stolen and and yeah, I sadly never, sadly never, never, never replaced it. And I mean that was when I wore, I don't know, maybe like six or seven years straight. You know, I wore it for quite a while and and yeah, it was a great watch for me.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, that was that's. One of the key reasons we're focusing also on producing these quality watches at a reasonable price point is we want people to be able to wear them. There's so many people who have watch collections that sit in a box because they're so valuable or they're very sensitive watches that can't go out. But all of our watches are built to be quite rugged and watches you feel proud to be able to wear, but you can wear them anywhere. You know that's one of our strategies.
Speaker 1:I think you guys accomplished that as I was doing my research for this podcast. I mean, clearly we can tell you're Australian from your accent. I'm glad to hear that. Blake, you also touched a lot about being like, I mean from the the. The copy that I got on the website, like you guys are, are not only from your. You're from australia, but you're proudly australian and you try to bring australian into the brand as much as you can. Uh, so what? What does it mean to be and? I can't even think of really any other Australian watch brands out there.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious. There's only two or three and I think we're by far the dominant one. And look, part of owning a watch is owning something that's a bit different. I think that's something that's a bit unusual about watches. You don't go for necessarily the mainstream all the time. People like to have something that's a bit unusual, something that's a bit of a talking point, and being an Australian watch brand certainly gives us that. But if you look at our heritage, what we tried to do is bring a bit of the Australiana into the watch and that's you know. If you look at the Australian lifestyle, it's about beaches, it's about it's a big country, you know, a bit like the US. It's got a fairly large attitude to things. So you know, watches a big bowl, they're all water resistant, they're rugged, they're designed to go to the outback, they're designed to go to the beach, they're designed to go snorkeling off the coast, surfing all the things that we like to do. Uh, I think also fits in very well with your california style lifestyle too.
Speaker 2:It's very similar yeah, yeah yeah, but uh yeah, we tried to make a little bit of a strain, but you know we've had to. We didn't want to be everything to everyone. I think, if you look at our watches, they are not for people who like small, petite, uh, watches that wear you wear under a sleeve. It's designed more of a, something that stands out, um, has a bold statement and uh you, and fits in with that sort of rugged lifestyle that we have here.
Speaker 1:I'm curious to talk about. If anybody's listening to any one of our podcasts, we always, whenever we have founders, co-founders, entrepreneurial stories. We usually love to talk about design. We usually love to talk about design. You know I can't do that with the big boys, so I'm curious about you. Know how do you guys, how did you guys adapt your design language into you? Know your air, land and sea collection and you know what defines a Panzera watch to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Roger, yeah, well, look, it was actually a lot of evolution. We tried lots of different things. Some worked and some didn't. And we tried, you know, we tried some very minimalistic watches which we had called the Brow Range, which did reasonably well. But then we found that, you know, the one like you bought, the Aquamarine and the flea, which are very big, bold watches, really did a lot better.
Speaker 2:And, uh, they ended up finding the characteristics which, uh, we had some very unique characteristics like skeleton hands. Um, we had a very clear, concise numbering, um, without necessarily using numbers all the way around, but having very clear indications, giving it that sort of a feel of but that has commonality between a pilot's watch and a dive watch, which is easy to read, very big dials, concise numbering, not too much clutter, and we found that was working for us. So we've ended up coming up with a sort of a formula that works really well for us, and then we've added a couple of new ranges, such as the Clasivo, which has given it a bit more of a classical feel. But so, once again, big, bold styling in that watch, even though it's more of a classical design. So we found some recipes, I suppose, along the way that worked for us, others didn't, and some of our watches have fallen off the range as we go along because when we started out we tried different things that didn't work.
Speaker 2:But we're now on a very firm track now where we know exactly what works and what our customers like and what we stand for. And, as I said earlier, we don't want to be everything to everyone. We want to be someone that produces a watch in a style that has this Panzero feel to it, which is this sort of big, bold, rugged, clear, easy-to-read type watch that you can sort of wear to a dress function but also wear it when you go to the beach. You know that's our style.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious. It seems like you guys I mean, as you know, I was doing again more research for this podcast, like you know, in the early days I mean you guys are now not only have you been making incredible watches for a while, but now you guys are going up market, Like you have some really, what I would define as, like you know, high end watches. You know specifically like the 45C, right? Yes, that's a $4,000 watch, you know, yes, and yeah, so you also have. I think, from my understanding, you're kind of like juggling, not only being like, I guess is it assembled in Australia? Do I understand that, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, the majority of our watches are assembled in Australia. Did I understand that right? Yes, yes, the majority of our watches are assembled in Australia, but we have a number also assembled, which you've raised, like the Ackermann 45C in Switzerland. Wow. And we went down that track because we realized that we did a bit of an experiment. To start with, we weren't sure how well accepted Panzer would be as a Swiss-manufactured watch, but we set up an operation in Switzerland and it's really taken off big time because there are people that especially people like yourself, who've tried the Australian watches and now want something higher end. There is that association that people like to have in owning a Swiss watch. We don't want them to have to move away from Panzer to experience that. And now the Aquaman 45C, which is our most expensive watch, is also one of our best sellers. So it's quite interesting that that high-end thing has taken off for us really well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean that is great. I mean you definitely have the balance right, because there are people that do want a Swiss label right, absolutely, for whatever reason Not necessarily the meat, it doesn't mean that it's better, but I think there's that perception now. I mean there's great watches, you know, that are made all around the world. You know China. There's some high-end brands that are coming out of China right now.
Speaker 2:China's watches can be considered very you know, very good quality, if you get the right ones.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah it's, it's insane. So I'm curious to you know all of our podcasts. We also talk about the entrepreneurial spirit, the journey you know as of right now, from what I've read, you guys have sold almost 300,000 watches in 100 countries and you did it pretty much all by yourself. You know everybody wants that. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people listening that are probably saying how the hell did you do that?
Speaker 2:Well, it certainly wasn't an easy road, but I think the whole revolution was the ability to leverage the e-commerce channel, basically selling through social media and Facebook and moving away from the traditional bricks and mortar style sales. Because it hasn't been an easy slog. I mean, we've had a lot of challenges Getting someone to buy a watch without seeing it from Australia, when most of our biggest market is the US, with 50% of our sales there. To get people from the US to purchase a watch from Australia sight unseen is a challenge. But we've sort of got it working and when that happened we realized well, we've got our own brand, we can sell it anywhere. We've got e-commerce. So if we want to sell them to Japan, we want to sell them to Israel, we want to sell them to South Africa, we can.
Speaker 2:And we found the uptake to be really good, really positive, in most of those countries. And you know, over the years people have come to us from all over the world and purchased our watches. The claim to fame we have is we can deliver one of our watches anywhere in the world in seven days, so it doesn't matter where you are. And especially during COVID, this was wonderful for us because people weren't going out to watch shops to buy watches, and they sort of did find us as a brand brand and that's really helped accelerate us as well. But yeah, we're very proud the fact that we we, we stand for getting rid of the overheads, you know, in terms of being able to supply direct to consumers and passing on those savings to them, and that's a message that's resonated really well, really well for us that's a pretty bold claim that you can pretty much deliver a watch anywhere in seven days.
Speaker 1:How did you guys get such a great understanding of? I mean, there's a lot of logistics and supply chain we haven't even really talked about, so how did you guys get such a good strong hold on something like that, like logistics? How the hell can you deliver a watch anywhere in the world in seven days?
Speaker 2:we just have. We built some very good relationships with our logistics suppliers and, uh, we just went down and you know we found the ones that could do it for us and optimize that. Roger's been really good in terms of working with those suppliers to optimize. They appreciate what we're trying to achieve and we gave them really good targets that if they could achieve we would obviously scale our spend with them. So they reached out and achieved it.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we're really really optimising things like that as being part of our strategy because without the price point or the attractive price points that we offer, you know, people wouldn't necessarily feel confident enough to purchase a watch. If we were just the same price point as everybody else in the retail world, people wouldn't take a risk to purchase from us. But by doing this model where we go direct, we can save the consumer money and they appreciate that and they're willing to take a risk with us because of the savings that we offer them. And even on our Swiss watches, which we were talking about before, we don't. You know, if you look at the AF45C, it's got a Valjoux movement in it.
Speaker 2:It's a beautiful timepiece, very classic timepiece, but at the price point we're offering it's still significantly less. Although it's a relatively expensive watch, it's still significantly less than what you'd normally pay for a watch of that calibre. So those savings have sent people to take a investment with us in terms of trying our watches even though they haven't seen them. And the best thing is, of course, we have a 30 percent return rate, so people like yourself, if purchased one, then come back and buy another. So it's really helped us accelerate the brand. Um, but doing things differently, I think, is really what's enabled us to achieve those numbers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious and maybe we could put this on the record for the first time, right? So you have sold 300,000 watches in 100 countries Freaking crazy. What are some of the countries maybe that you may or may not know of that panzera hasn't reached yet?
Speaker 2:the main ones we haven't reached yet. Well, there are a couple we've reached and we've had to pull out of south america, I think is one of them because the taxes there when you import watches were like 150 of the price of the watch, so we didn't last very long there. Uh, mexico we have set up a really good distributor there because we had a lot of issues importing watches into mexico, but we solved that problem by having an intermediary distributor there, so that's actually where we are selling them to. Uh, there are places where dhl don't deliver to. As you can, we're not selling a lot of watches into Russia at the moment Sure and other places where there's no access. But primarily, the only two things that stop us selling are very high tax rates, import taxes for direct-to-consumer products and places where DHL and FedEx and the other big logistics companies we deal with don't travel to. But outside of that, you know, we've supplied to military service in countries where they're at war. We don't mind that. As long as the logistics companies supply there, we can go there.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I mean, yeah, you guys are clearly doing something right. My dog, as you can probably tell, agrees with you.
Speaker 2:I think he wants to get a Fanzero watch.
Speaker 1:It sounds like it. It sounds like it. I'm curious about not only that too, but we talk to a lot of these founders and entrepreneurs that have a challenge with supply chain. You know, obviously parts are coming from germany, japan, italy, switzerland, you know, sometimes china. You know, like, how did you guys kind of get all of that together and how did you guys kind of buckle down and and and build out your supply chain that really helps to support, get watches into a price range that your customers feel comfortable purchasing, and and how do you continue forward doing such?
Speaker 2:well, it's been a challenge but, as I said it's, we've got a really good relationship with our suppliers. That's the key. Um, we we have had our issues. Um, movements can sometimes be. We've had recent experiences where movements have been drastically going up in price due to shortages, um, uh, issues like that. We've had period where we couldn't get movements. We've actually had to change the movement in some of our watches, redesign them, because we knew there was a shortage coming up of the movement we were using in one of the watches. Um, yeah, and we had, you know, three months to get that sorted out, which is a real challenge. But overall, we've had really good suppliers. We forecast ahead, we keep an eye out for issues that are coming up and we've become very adaptive.
Speaker 2:As I said, you know, once or twice we've had to look at changing the movement in a watch. Now, as long as it's a similar quality, um, you know, movement from, you know, myota to seiko or vice versa, whatever um, then we've been able to work around those issues. Uh, they have been there. But overall we've had pretty good, good running because we've always picked products as scalable. So, you know, if we, if we try and minimize the amount of customization that's required to things like movements, and we have a really good supplier who's able to provide scale out of Europe for our key components and straps as well. We've had multiple suppliers, so if one supplier can't match the requirements, we can switch over to the second and or have two different suppliers providing us at the same time. So it's a bit of belts and braces we've used along the way, but, yeah, we've managed to keep keep going all the way through without anything too many too many headaches along the way.
Speaker 1:I mean that's amazing and still, as you can hear, my dog still agrees, curiously. So the Aquamarine, like I said, was one of my first watches. Like third watch, and as I was doing more research for this, I was actually disappointed to learn that now it kind of seems like you've tightened up the aquamarine collection, because mine had a day and a date complication and now that is not found anymore in the aquamarine and uh, and so also funny story is uh, like I said when I first got, this watch is my third watch. I have no freaking idea anything at all about watches, but here I am right and so I noticed like if I, if I was, like you know, if I turned my wrist fast enough, like the second hand would stop right and I'm like I'm like what the hell is going on with you know.
Speaker 1:So then I reach out, right, I reach out to you know your brand, panzeros customer service, whoever right and I'm like I think my watch is broken, like you know. And then, um, you know, like I don't even know you guys, you guys were like replied within like 15 minutes or something. I was like, oh wow, okay, but uh, you know, come to find out it. Actually they were like, oh no, it's working. You know, I recorded the video, sent it in, right, and they're like oh no, it's working, as it's like a safety mechanism to keep like the movement, I guess, like something like you know the movement that you were using at the time.
Speaker 2:I know exactly what movement was in it.
Speaker 1:yeah, and I was like, oh okay, so not only did I get awesome support, but I also learned something about watches and movements at that time Because, like I said, you know, I was very new to watch collecting. And there's also something that you know I've talked about on some of my previous episodes about, you know, sometimes making an image and marketing your brand towards, you know, passionate enthusiasts or even entry-level enthusiasts A lot of the brands that we talk to now they have that challenge right. They can't be the first watch or the second watch or the third watch or the fourth watch or the fifth watch. You know they have to, I guess, wait their turn, you know. And so how did you guys come around that that you know that's a huge hurdle right To you know, for for new enthusiasts to feel comfortable investing. You know that that's a huge hurdle right to you know, for for new enthusiasts to feel comfortable investing, you know, into a product like yours. Um, I'd be curious to maybe get you know some, some perspective on the those things yeah, look it's.
Speaker 2:It's been a challenge, um, and if I had to rate our biggest hurdle, it is getting people to feel comfortable to buy a watch for the first time. I mean, if you read most of our reviews online, which you can do on our website, it's amazing how people say you've got my first watch. It's amazing I'm just about to order my second and my third. Amazing, my fourth pan zero. Getting the second and third sales easy, because when people receive the watch they say, wow, okay, this is really cool. Um, it's a good watch. It's much better than I even expected. But that first hurdle is a real challenge and the only way we've been able to do that is really to direct a lot of different types of messaging, both through the website and through social media advertising, to reassure people that this thing will turn up. It will be a great quality time piece and, yes, although the price point is lower than what you're traditionally used to paying, you're going to get an exceptional timepiece for that amount of money. And that's been the whole focus of our challenge and both our social media and I have to laugh because a lot of our customers. We now have a display suite in Sydney. We get to meet some of the customers come in and a lot of our customers. We now have a display suite in Sydney.
Speaker 2:We get to meet some of the customers come in and a lot of the comments I get was I had to buy one of these because on social media I kept getting these stunning photos of these beautiful watches turning up and they wouldn't stop showing them to me and eventually I thought, well, I've got to go buy one, otherwise this is going to drive me crazy.
Speaker 2:So it is a little bit of repeat show them the watch, give them different messaging and really, you know, displaying the watches in a positive way so that people feel well, that's something I really, really want to own. I'm willing to take a risk and the average conversion time frame for us is not short. It takes from first seeing a watch, like you did on on social media, to buying one somewhere between 11 and 30 days minimum. So you know it's sort of a. It is not an easy sales cycle and it's not cheap for us to to market you in that period, but it does work in terms of getting people to the level of confidence eventually that they'll purchase I think that goes with any watch brand now.
Speaker 1:I mean, now you have so many different types of information at your fingertips. You know, somebody, somebody will, you know, see a watch review on YouTube, and then you know, then they'll go down the rabbit hole looking around at the website. Then they'll, you know, they'll try to find the watches locally if they can, and then they'll go back. They'll go back to YouTube or maybe they'll end up at a watch show where they get hands on with it. And now watches, more are, are about feeling. I've started to notice, you know, people want to get hands-on with something, people want to try it on their wrist, people want to see if it connects with them. You know, um, so I, I mean you guys have been around since the early days of e-commerce, independent watch brands. Absolutely. I think it's just getting harder. It's just getting way harder now, from my opinion.
Speaker 2:It is and it isn't. I think COVID was a major switching point for us, because people did sort of move out of the bricks and mortar, got to get in a retail shop and buy my suit, got to buy my watch, got to buy everything, to wow, I can buy everything online. And once that switch has been thrown, people do like the convenience of it. Um, I think the key for us is we offer very good returns so that people can actually buy the watch. If they're not 100 happy, they can return it to us. So that's a key aspect as well. But, uh, yeah, I think we're we're we're 100 committed. That that's our. You know, as a that, as a differentiator, we'll give you exceptional quality and value. But the risk that you take is you have to come and buy it without seeing it, and we try and minimize that by allowing you to return it if you're not happy and giving you as much information about the brand and the watch as possible prior to you actually committing. So that's what we do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean amazing.
Speaker 1:Something I've started to notice too is, you know, as brands like yours, you know it seems like you're going up market, right, you know, particularly now kind of trying to to jump into a new price segment.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's been something that you've done a while ago and I haven't paid attention, so I apologize for my ignorance. But now, particularly challenging, you know a lot of your watches I mean your entry door seeming to be around what? Five hundred dollars, and then, you know, going up to you know a couple thousand dollars, you know what fourth, what four thousand fifty dollars, yes, um, and and now you're starting to see that that 500 to 700 price segment is now becoming increasingly, increasingly popular with, uh, I guess, the big boys. Maybe we can say you know, you're starting to see brands like Hamilton and, you know, like another brand that I really enjoy, like Young Hans, you know, and they've got watches in that price point. So I'm curious to maybe, maybe you haven't felt any competition from brands like that because of your design, language and your target audience and consumer and things like that. But you know, know, how do you feel like you guys stand now in that price point?
Speaker 2:um, we, we, we've been growing. I mean it's interesting. We've had a lot of questions about tariffs and competitors and other things, but the main thing is, um, we've continued to grow at an exponential rate, which is an indication of our success. But I think the thing that helps us is, I think we've really refined our messaging around the brand and, as I mentioned before, we've sort of won this sort of design style. Now, I'm not saying our design style is for everybody it's certainly not but for the people that like that design style, I think we've basically built something that is really very attractive to them.
Speaker 2:And, as you pointed out, I don't think someone who's interested in a lot of these other brands necessarily would affiliate with our brand style or vice versa. So we've tried to identify a style that's really worked for us, which is called the Panzer style, and I think also the value proposition you get. You can buy good watches for that amount of money, but we like to think that what you're getting, in terms of both the design, the quality and the ruggedness, et cetera you get from our watches at a similar price point, is still very exceptional compared to, you know, equivalent models at similar prices, you know you know, oh yeah, I mean I can't disagree.
Speaker 1:I mean, especially, I think, when I was on my journey, I don't even I don't even remember how much I paid for my panzerra. And then, you know, back then I mean it just seems like nobody was was doing bold, rugged tool watches, you know, I, I think that's if I could say, you know panerai, right again, you know, it's kind of the brand that I was like, hey, like I love panerai, but I can't afford a panerai. You know, like I want something that feels just like a panerai, it looks like a panerai that's bold, that's rugged, that is, you know, unmistakably, in your case, you know panzerra at this point. So, uh, I don't know if I, if my wife got it for me, I found it or I started talking. It was it's been a really long time, like like it's been 20 years, you know exactly you know.
Speaker 2:So you're one of the people that found something you like that's in our design criteria, and there's not a lot else out there that matches that same characteristics yeah.
Speaker 1:And then the price segment right, like you know, I, you know you find yourself in that. Okay, it's crazy, I'm gonna spend five hundred dollars on a watch, you know. And then I was talking about this with somebody like relatively recently. And then, as you start going down the rabbit hole, you're like, okay, I got my five hundred dollar watch, I love this. All right, maybe my next watch will be like a thousand dollars. Okay, a thousand dollars, cool. Like you know, the wife approved it, cool. And then you get your thousand dollar watch and you're like, oh shit, okay, uh, maybe my next watch will be two thousand dollars. You know, like you start nudging yourself up because and and that's exactly what started the whole brand.
Speaker 2:If you look back to my original story, the whole idea was how do we make collecting watches not so inaccessible that you can build a collection for thousands of dollars, not tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars?
Speaker 2:so yeah we've got guys out there, we've got some quite well-known celebrities actually, who own 12 or 15 of our watches, which is a real compliment, and they've built a collection just out of our range, which is really nice. But you $500, you can't afford to buy a watch every six months or a year and add to your collection, whereas if you're paying $5,000 to $6,000 or $10,000, it's very hard to justify building a collection up unless you're very, very wealthy.
Speaker 1:I'm curious. So we always ask this question. But you own a watch brand. You can pretty much make any freaking watch you want to, right, it seems like. So tell me which watch from the collection is still your baby? This one here?
Speaker 2:It's the A45C. It's our first model. I'm very proud of it because we sort of launched it as a bit of an experiment. Being a very high-end watch, we weren't sure whether it would sell well under the Panzera branding, but it's become probably one of the top two best-selling watches we have, even though it's a very high price point. It's hand-assembled in Switzerland. It's a really nice design. It's a chronograph using a Valjoux movement, so very proud of it. I'm very proud that we can, you know, be considered up there with the high pedigree watches, not just at the entry-level ones, as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I am looking at it right now, kind of drooling a little bit on the website. At the same time, most people always ask, like I'm doing a little bit multitasking here on the back and it that watch in the, the blue dial, or even on the, uh, the, the, what is it like a yellow rubber?
Speaker 2:yellow rubber, yeah, yellow rubber yellow, the yellow highlights of the dial, sort of just oh man, great, great, great looking watch man.
Speaker 1:I'm curious and you know, let's talk about a little bit of some of the inspiration, right? You know we like to jump around here, so I'm sorry, but it seems like you know you talk about or I guess maybe I read or alluded to that you talk about taking inspiration from adventure, right? Did I understand that correctly? Like you know, flying sailing outdoor life read, or alluded to that you talk about taking an inspiration from adventure, right? Is that is that? Did I understand that correctly?
Speaker 1:like you know, flying sailing outdoor life you know, I think I think you guys in in australia are known for that right, like outdoor life right, absolutely that's your thing. So so how do you? Travel adventure ocean, warm weather, deserts, hiking, the usual outdoor type, very, very outdoor country, australia, very outdoor how do you, how do you infuse those that you know, mentality, that that energy like into, into the watches?
Speaker 2:you know, maybe that's a challenging question, but well, it's, it's, it's it's it's about, I think the thing is, I think what we've the real contrast, I think we're, I think we wanted to pick the real contrasting factor for our watches up. We wanted to build a watch like this you could wear out to, you know, wear that with a suit, you can get any function, you wear a black tie, wedding, but it still has to have that outdoor character. So this watch is 200 meter water resistant, it's still big, it's still bold, it's still, uh, rugged. So it needs to fit into that characteristic of being versatile. I mean, we love going out to fancy events here in australia, just like everywhere else, but we also will probably hit the beach the same day that we go out to something at work. So, right, you know it needs to be that versatility that fits in with the australian concept, and I think that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2:I want a watch you can wear everywhere and I think, apart from, you know, the ruggedness, the price point means these watches aren't something you have to sit at home in a box, um, and why do we want out for special occasions? And that's something I think we've always wanted to track through. We wanted a watch you can wear anywhere. No matter which model you pick, it's got to be something you don't just wear to the gym because it doesn't look good, but it also has to be something you can wear to the gym if you want to look good, uh, straight after the gym or even when you're at the gym. So it's it's. It's a versatility that we put into our watches and I think that fits with something you can wear anywhere, be it outdoors, you know, on a hike, on adventure, down the beach, at a formal dinner, whatever it needs to be a watch you can take anywhere, and that's something that's gone into every one of our watches.
Speaker 1:There's not one of our watches that you can't go into a pool with, even if it's one of our dress style watches, you know something that you also failed to mention is 200 meters of water resistance in an automatic chronograph is freaking insane in an engineering nightmare, unless you have those screwed on crowns, right, which in your case I mean you. You guys don't have those screwed on crowns, so I can already just assume I mean just screwed on crowns, suck, let's just all admit it. For, for, for chronographs, right.
Speaker 2:Let's just all put that out there uh, I had to spot it out, but we do it all. I'm watching. That's good.
Speaker 1:Yes, I do for the chronographs, the chronograph pushers, really no, no, not for the program. Oh sorry, my apologies for the actual crown for the no no the crown is perfect for screw down but the chronograph pushers like those suck, because then you're like let me unscrew my crown here to start my corner.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, no no, I agree with you there.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I was misinterpreting no, no, no, yeah, so maybe I misspoke, but which is also insanely challenging, right, because you don't have that screw down there. I mean, I'm sure that was an engineering nightmare to your design team. When you say, hey, I want automatic chronograph that's 200 meters or water resistance, they're probably like, oh, we need to find a new job. We need to find a new job.
Speaker 2:We're not going to be able to pull this off so, yeah, no, well, that's what we like to push the boundaries. I mean, the thing is, when we built this one, we wanted to have everything. Because it was a, you know, introductory, you know high-end watch. We thought, well, we're not going to hold the stoppers back on just because of chronograph, we're not going to reduce the water resistance, we're not going to reduce the rugged liability of the watch. It still needs to be a panzer. So we did push the boundaries a bit there, but we managed to get it through. And, um, part of its part of its charm is this nautical feel. You know it's one of those watches you can't go sailing or diving with, but also wear it to any, any quality function that you need to as well.
Speaker 1:You know it really fits that panzer mold really perfectly I'm also kind of curious, andrew, and this is probably something that may it might be a sore topic, maybe not, but um, you know, you, you're, you're selling watches in 100 countries. Like, how do you support your customers? Like I mean, that's challenging. Like you know, these are watches, these are mechanical watches, they're designed to be worn in every instance. Right, you just mentioned that like they break they, like you know they stop running, you know you get some moisture condensation under the dial. You know, shoot, I gotta send. Like how, how do you even like start to approach to develop a support infrastructure? You know, to even support that, sorry, no, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was, I was done there, I was just rambling, yeah that was probably one of the first things.
Speaker 2:Also to differentiate. I didn't really cover that. When you set up an online business, having a support infrastructure is critical, because people don't have the confidence they can just take it back to the shop they bought it from. So what we have set up and we did this very early in the piece is a 24 by 7 support system. So you know, we've got customers around the world, so we can't just have it running during Australian time zone. So we thought, well, let's set up something that's real time.
Speaker 2:You can go online now and have a chat to one of our service agents now on our website and ask them a question and you'll get a response back within a few minutes. That's critical because we do need to have a support structure that can candle all these different countries. But also we get some. You know, often these are first purchases and people will come back and don't realise they've bought an automatic watch and it's going to stop working if they don't wear it after about two or three days, because they're used to wearing a battery-operated watch. The number of queries we have around that is quite high, surprisingly.
Speaker 1:Well, that's actually a compliment that people who don't even know what an automatic watch is are still purchasing your watches. So dude that's a compliment in the weirdest way possible.
Speaker 2:It is, and being able to service those customers has been very critical and a very core part of our, you know, strategy in business to offer, you know, first-class service.
Speaker 2:The other key thing is we've always used what I'd classify as sort of broadly accepted movements. So even this one uses the Valjoux 7750, which in the Swiss watch world is quite well known. So you know, if people want a service in five, ten years' time, they don't have trouble getting parts or taking it to a local watch agent to get it repaired if they want to, or taking it to a local watch agent to get it repaired if they want to, obviously during warranty period we take care of all that for them and we get the watch shipped back to us if we need to and get it repaired or replaced. But after that the watch can run indefinitely because all of our watches use very well-known movements that have been around for probably decades either the Seikos or the Motors or the Valjouxs or the Swiss ones which basically means that those watches can be maintained locally by our customers indefinitely in their own countries, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that's what it's all about and you start to see the push.
Speaker 1:You know I've talked about this publicly pretty often too. Like you know, a lot of brands have been reliant on a multi, like a retail experience, right, where there is a multi shop, where there's 10 brands, 15 brands, 20 brands and one person can go and look at all the different watch brands and get exposure to the brand through that right. But there's also a problem with that approach that if you buy a watch from a multi-brand store, you know let's just say, if you buy whatever, it is tag heuer, iwc, panerai, what you're? You're not a panerai customer, right? You're not an idc customer, you're. You're not a tag heuer customer, you are a multi-brand insert name here customer, you know. And they own that customer, right. And so you're starting to see brands that try to figure out ways that they can own those customers and start in-house movements. This is where they come in, right, like, okay, cool, let's design our own movement architecture and let's make it impossible for local watchmakers to service or you know, get parts for, or, um, you know whatever.
Speaker 1:And then you know that's not working. They're not, they're not taking back their customers enough. So let's open our own boutiques, and you know, let's do this and see if we can capture customer customers that way. And and you, you guys, never really had to worry about that because you were always focused on on just producing a great quality watch. You know making an accessible price point. You know figuring out how you can, you know, ship it logistically into that country, right, I'm sure? And and just focus on on, you know again, just giving a quality product instead of figuring out, you already own your customer, right, they purchase it directly from you, right? Like usually. I mean, you guys are direct-to-consumer.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We've got all our customers and our biggest asset, I think, is our customer list of people that have purchased and or expressed interest in purchasing, because that's something we own and we like to build a relationship with our customers. That's something we own and we like to build a relationship with our customers. And when we launch a new model, of course, the biggest number of orders we always get in the first few few weeks are existing customers coming back to buy something, new offers, which is something that's both very flattering and very, um, very important to us.
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, like I said, this isn't, this isn't supposed to be one of those podcasts where I'm just praising you for everything, whatever, whatever the PR company reached out to me and I can't even tell you how many times I get all these PR agencies that want to reach out and they want to bring you know, bring their brand on my podcast and have this story, have this discussion, and unfortunately, I do ignore a lot of them but when they said it was you and Panzera not that I even knew you, right I didn't even know you, because you guys aren't. You guys don't put your face out there, right? You let the watches speak for themselves, right? Obviously, as I did some research and I found your name on the website and I found roger's name on the website, and you know you talked briefly about starting watches and you know the watch brand 2009, but, uh, but it becomes challenging, like which brands do I sit down and do this with and which way do I do I not do this with?
Speaker 2:and, uh, your pr people are very persistent I will say so good, I'm glad to hear that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good job. And then, and then, yeah, the second, they said Pangea. I was like, let's make it happen, let's make it happen. And then, yeah, obviously I've been traveling and so we had to do a little bit of weird rescheduling and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But as I was doing research for this, I also, you know, when I started reading, because I had no idea, you know, that you guys were, I guess, I mean, I guess I knew you were successful. I just didn't know that you were this successful at selling watches. And then I knew you had a great product that you guys are coming full circle and delivering on, you know what, I would say, the next quality product. You know, with some of you know, you even brought up the 45C. And also, as I was reading on the about like side of the website, you know, and I was like, 300,000 watches in 100 countries, which is, you know again, I've said it freaking crazy.
Speaker 1:Um, then I started poking through the website a little bit more and I was like, okay, like who helped andrew do this? You know who? You know like which? Which? Which celebrity is it that helped you do this? And then I couldn't find anything. You, I couldn't find any like celebrity endorsements or, like you know, like hitting your name onto somebody else's fame, because brands do that Right, they're like you know they'll throw their lasso around the celebrity and use that to climb their way to the top and get you know, get attention, right, and it seems like you guys have never even really done that. Is that accurate?
Speaker 2:Like you don't have any ambassadors, it's just your customers are the ambassadors right, we do have a few ambassadors In fact we're about to launch them but they're not ambassadors to the point where people would go, okay, wow, I know that person Because I hate to point it out, but it's sort of exactly what we're trying to avoid, which is we could go pay a couple of million dollars to a very famous celebrity to endorse our watches, but that million dollars, or multi-million dollars, would have to go under the price of the watch to then endorse. That pushes the price up again. So the whole idea is we're trying to cut all that out. We do have ambassadors, but they're people like you know, the aggressive squadron pilots in the US Air Force have selected our watches. I'm about to put a piece up about that. They selected them themselves and they're using our watches now as their sort of customised squadron timepiece.
Speaker 2:We've got a very famous baseball player who owns 12 of our watches a US baseball player, oh wow, but we haven't been able to. You know, we would like to ask him if he'd be happy to be one of our ambassadors. But you know it's these sorts of people are, you know, behind the scenes and we don't tend to push paid ambassadors, but we'd like to get people you know a bit more people aware that we do have these very famous people wearing them, but they're not wearing because we pay them to wear them. We're wearing that. They're wearing because they actually like them and they've selected them themselves.
Speaker 2:So it's a bit of a different approach, but we tried to go away from that. It's all that whole, the three things we discovered, that push the prices of watches up when you go and pay, you know, twelve thousand, thirteen thousand dollars. It's not because the watch costs are significantly more than ours to manufacture, but it's the fact that they're paying for stores. You look at a lot of the watch stores. They're very premium stores. It costs a fortune in rent. You then pay a distributor and the third thing is they're paying these ambassadors huge amounts of money. Or they're sponsoring Formula One or they're sponsoring something else that costs millions and millions of dollars. That then has to get added to the cost of the watch to get their money back. And that's where we're taking a very opposite approach. You know we're saying let's cut all that out and go with our own merit and bring a watch in that's good value.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, I mean, you certainly haven't hung your hat on that, on that strategy, which is again you know, unfortunately a lot. You certainly haven't hung your hat on that, on that strategy, which is again you know, unfortunately a lot of. I think a lot of brands have no choice but to do it at this point sometimes no, I think you're right.
Speaker 2:If you want to get acceleration and you wanted to get out there you're doing everything the same as everybody else, especially going through retail channel you need to have a differentiator, and that tends to be an ambassador that people think I'd like to be, they're my hero, they're my aspiration, or I'd like to be like them and wear the same watches they do, and that's a good strategy. It just is a very costly one and it does add to the cost of their product.
Speaker 1:I'm curious to maybe we could talk about how you guys engage your customer base, your community, how you guys engage your, your customer base, your community, like, um, you know you're starting to see kind of a surge in independent brands that are essentially like cutting down the communication lines to their customers. You know, whether you know you have the founders that are putting their email on the website, or, um, you know, having Facebook groups where you know your staff, your employees or you guys are, are or or or on Reddit right when you, you know you have a subreddit and then people are, you know, from Panzera, are actively engaging with customers, or not only engaging with them but supporting customers. Um, so I'm curious, maybe you guys are already doing that. You know, how do you, how do you engage with, do you engage with your consumers, your customers, your fans of the brand, and what does that look like for a Panzera customer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's an interesting question. It's something we're changing at the moment. Traditionally we've just used email. I mean, we have a mailing list which has got very large numbers of people on it, which we reach out to people on a regular basis, probably once or twice a week, to give them updates and offers and communicate with them that way.
Speaker 2:But more recently, roger and I have sort of stepped out a little bit from behind the out of the shadows, because we tried to keep ourselves a little bit distant from the brand and let the brand run on its own merit. But we've had some recent engagement with a bit of a vlogging team who think that, you know, we could really add to the brand by coming out and sharing our lifestyle and a little bit of stories about the brand et cetera. And we just started doing that. Our YouTube channel is now starting to pick up a little bit of regular content from Roger and I and we're doing a little bit of direct social communication back out which then we also share to our customers via our mailing list as well. So we are starting to come out a little bit more and Roger and I are starting to become a bit more of a face of the brand so that people can feel comfortable that we're not just an organization, but we're real people who produce real watches, and who we are and what we stand for.
Speaker 1:Authenticity is very important, as I'm sure you know this, and now the lines from authenticity and and being genuinely authentic and and faking authenticity have been blurred, unfortunately, and you have brands that are like manufacturing watches, or you know that are pretending that they're manufacturing watches and in in this country or that country, and you know you don't see anybody's name on the website you know, so you don't you know, you people are faking this these days, which is sad.
Speaker 2:It's sad it is very, very sad. A lot, of, a lot of brands are just brands, like they're just taking products that already exist in other countries, even china, and bringing them in and rebadging them and pretending that they've got a brand. But we wanted to make sure people I I mean I've been keeping up the Australian accent pretty well on this show- All right, so once we stop recording, you can. You can drop the accent Go back into the American accent again.
Speaker 1:So so curious, as Panzera continues to grow, what can we expect? You know is there. You know, you know complications, you guys, maybe you could talk about your exploring, or maybe materials or, you know, maybe innovations that you hope to bring to the brand. If you could talk about that, that'd be exceptional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look there's. Roger and I get together and we often discuss where we want to go in the next 12, 18, 24, and five years. But I think the key thing we've learned is originally we were tossing up. When the success of the effect of the Aquamarine 45C, our Swiss premium watch and a couple of other Swiss models took off, we thought, well, maybe we should move the whole brand to be Swiss-based. One thing I can assure everyone is we're not doing that, because we've sort of developed what I think is a really nice strategy of people who want to spend $500 to $1,000 on a watch still can, and that's probably still our biggest market but people that want to take advantage of owning a nice Swiss watch that's good quality, that also has that same advantage of being able to buy direct from as a consumer and save money but have a quality of owning a Swiss premium watch can as well. So we're keeping the two ranges running in parallel. So we've got the Australian made watches and the Swiss watches is something that we're going to maintain. What we are thinking of doing is bringing out something very, very high-end, so we're going to call it something that will be very limited edition. It will have all sorts of unique complications and it will be only available to people that have purchased one of our watches before, and in very, very limited numbers. So we're going to make that because we do have a lot of fans within the Panzera family now and we think they'd like to have something that's very exclusive. And we'd like to have something very exclusive also that will act even more of a halo sort of model for the rest of the range as well. So that's something we're toying with is coming out in the next few, maybe within the next year or two.
Speaker 2:Then there's also just expanding the range. We found that our pre-order model works really well. We're bringing out a new model. It always goes well. People like to have something new and fresh, especially if they're already existing panzer owners. So we'll be continuing to bring out new models within each range. Uh, probably one every, you know, uh, two or three each year, but they'll be along the same lines and taking making sure it fits into that panzer group. So, uh, but yeah, nothing too too radical in that space, but definitely continuing to bring out new models. That uh will will enhance the range in each of the the four, four core areas that we focus on also curious too are you guys looking, you know, to?
Speaker 1:because you, you have a sports range, right, but I wouldn't really consider it to be like inspired by, like motorsport, right, it's more of a, uh, like a diver. I'd say it's more of a diver-esque sports range, yes, but uh, you know, are you guys looking to anything like that? Like I mean, if you're from, from Australia, you probably are into F1, right?
Speaker 2:Maybe, well, we are definitely into F1. We also sponsor one of our sort of I would call it an ambassador. But one of our sponsored athletes is a GT4 driver, an Australian GT4 driver. So we do tend to favor that and we do have one model, the time master 45, which, and also the time master 43, which is sort of around that sort of motorsports range, but we sort of group it into that sports group, which is a little bit general, and I think that's something we need to look at.
Speaker 1:I think we do need to come out with something a little bit more motorsport focused within our group, you know yeah, that's what I was trying to, maybe see if there's something there, because you're starting to see a lot, a lot of brands kind of embrace, motorsport and and just racing in general, and uh, and have great success with it.
Speaker 1:Because you know, the, the dive watch category is actually the uh, the, I guess the um, the saturated category, and you guys have that mastered, right, you know, if you've mastered the dive watch category, usually it's a, it's a safe stretch. I mean, again, I'm not talking, I'm not here trying to tell you how to run your brand, of course, but um, you know, if you've mastered the dive watch category, then usually it's a safe play that you might have success in, like motorsport. Or, you know, you, you guys have what I would consider some, some field watches already, right, so, yes, um, so, so, yeah, yeah, I think that would be crazy to see something like that, you know, coming around the pipeline and then uh, no, no, it's funny you should mention that because roger and I were talking about it.
Speaker 2:We definitely need to have a bit more of a motor sports focused watch. The time master sort of was filling that field, but I think it's time for something a bit new and more fresh, that to fill up that particular space. It's a very important area. I mean, one area that's done really well for us is the GMT side of things, which we've now launched two or three models in that space and they've done really well, because having an affordable GMT watch sort of fits into both. You know that can work in conjunction with diving, it can work in conjunction with travel, it can work in conjunction with adventure or explorer. But it's an area that's really done well for us in the last 12 months.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now I'm sure and this is probably one of the more challenging questions that I think I might ask you today and you might hopefully answer but now that you have your baby right, panzera, your baby what does the legacy look like for Panzera right? How do you archive this thing? How do you make sure this thing keeps going beyond Andrew and Roger's days?
Speaker 2:Well, that's a very good point and I think about this quite a lot. I mean, everybody says you should have an exit strategy for a business, and I suppose you should. I think we should have one. But my also concept is maybe it's something we can pass down to our kids. I mean, having a family business based on watch production is something that is very, you know, powerful. But also, the thing is a watch company, the longer it runs, the more heritage and pedigree it has.
Speaker 2:I think the hardest challenge for us was when we were a two-year-old business trying to get watches out there and people hadn't heard of us at all and there was no history, there was no background, there wasn't a large customer base to refer back to, get reviews from, etc.
Speaker 2:So the longer the business runs, the more powerful it becomes, and we've seen nothing but growth over the last, you know, 15 years since we started the business. So as long as that continues, I could very easily see it being something we could hand down to our. Both Roger and I have kids. You know we could be something that we could potentially hand down to our children one day as something that they can work with us on, be part of the business and grow and learn how to run it and keep it going indefinitely. I mean, I'd love to think of Panzera as something being, you know, a hundred year old business in a hundred years time, so, or 115 year old business in a hundred' time. So it's something that could potentially do and, as you know, legacy is something that is very powerful in the watch industry. It's not something that necessarily goes out of vogue. I think the longer a company runs, the more people sort of respect the brand.
Speaker 1:Is that something that maybe you've even, I guess, tried to hint at your children, like, hey guys, you've even uh, I guess, tried to like hint at you know your children like hey guys, my son, my son has a whole list of uh, funny names for our range of watches.
Speaker 2:He calls uh, what do you call it? The? Uh, the time master is the tomb master, so he's got a whole lot of. There's the aquamarine bubble or something he calls other things, so he's got a. He's a teenage boy now so, uh, he is sort of, you know, playing around with business, but he, he asked for one of our watches for his birthday present, which I thought was oh man, so that's crazy.
Speaker 1:That's crazy awesome. I'm sure that's like one of those first full circle moments for you where you're like, yes, absolutely like, how. How does this happen? You know that your son is asking for a birthday gift or something that you created exactly.
Speaker 2:It was very complimentary. Especially for a teenage boy these days to to ask for a watch is quite unusual. Normally they want a smart watch or something, but which he wanted?
Speaker 1:one of our time master oh okay, I was about to ask which one, which one was he asking for? But no, no, and then this is going to be the final one that we leave you with, or maybe on. At this point, I'm curious about your goals for the future. Everybody has them. In 20 years, 15 years, you and I can look back together and laugh, because we recorded this podcast for one and and I want something to hold you to additionally, you know. So what? What are you hoping for, you know, in the future of Panzera?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'd like, I'd love Panzera to be. We're a successful brand. At the moment we're not. Probably we're not a household name. I'd love, in 20 years time, for panzer to be as well known as some of the other big watch brands out there. Not necessarily the same pedigree, or you know cost base or you know selling, you know hundred thousand dollar watches, but well known enough to say, well, I know what panzer stands for. I've heard of panzer. You can go around and you go to a pub and you talk to your mates. I bought a Panzera. Oh, yeah, I know that brand. They're a really good brand. We know them, of course we know them. Everybody knows Panzera. So I'd love to be one day one of those brands that people, not only you know, not only a brand that's successful but is also potentially a household name and well-known. As I mentioned before, maybe part of a family business that Roger and I family has diversified into all working and being part of.
Speaker 1:That would be exceptional. And yeah, I mean Pantera and I mean you can go back and listen to every single podcast I've ever recorded and I don't think I've ever said this, maybe once or twice, right, but there's very few brands that hold like a very kind of special place, you know, in my heart as a collector and um, and yeah, I think I told you, like I said, you know, obviously panzer was one of the early, early brands for me. Um, you know, obviously, uh, I'm not being paid to say say this, as far as I'm aware, and I am, please tell me where the check is going.
Speaker 2:Hang on, I'll just hand this watch over to you.
Speaker 1:But seriously, in all seriousness, you guys were early into my watch collecting journey and, yeah, it's a brand that I would love to see continue, you know, continue forward, you know, and to be that right To be that household name and for people to experience what it's like to own one of your watches. You know, because for me it was a companion, you know. You know, sadly it's one of those ones that got away, man, it's a sad story. I think it was like I was in my watch cases and I got robbed. Oh, that's not good, and I just never got it back.
Speaker 1:But anyways, yeah, it was one of those brands that was a companion for me and I didn't know watches. I didn't know watches, didn't know watches, but I knew I knew panzera and um, and I felt comfortable wearing it every single day. And then, and I'll never forget, you know, because, um, you know, when I first got it, you know, I didn't even really understand like materials or quality or anything. Um, you know, I was too scared to go into you know a nice store and ask to see a panerai or an omega. I was just, I was too scared to go into you know a nice store and ask to see a panerai or an omega. I was just, I was too scared, right because I, you know, I don't want, I can't I can't afford those, you know.
Speaker 1:And uh, and I'll never forget, um, I I had your watch. I was doing a lot of traveling through through the world and I had, you know, I had a couple more watches at the at the time. Um, I had like maybe like five or six, you know, and um, and there was only one watch I took with me, you know it was. It was your, your descent, I think it was called the atlantic descent that's right.
Speaker 2:We based on the dial colors. We we sort of got rid of those names because it made a bit confusing, but we still have the same model, yeah yeah, the aquamarine, and uh and uh, and that strap, man, like that strap was just so supple, so soft.
Speaker 1:I I mean, I, I you know you think about that right, you know how can you wear this and and comfortably wear this, right, and I you know again. So that's. I think that's all I got from my glowing endorsement, but I just remember.
Speaker 2:It's worth adding that we do get to meet our customers and it is interesting the diversity. There's people like yourself where it's one of the first watches, but we get a lot of people who own big watch collections of Rolexes and Amigas and they're still very complimentary about the quality of the watch, but they just feel it's something they can wear every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a watch that you don't have to keep up with, like it's designed to keep up with you, right, exactly.
Speaker 2:I used to get to work in a marketing department.
Speaker 1:I'm looking for work. I like that. That's a good catchphrase.
Speaker 1:It really is, though, you know, because I have watches now that I have to keep up with, you know, and I have Rolex, because I have watches now that I have to keep up with, you know, and I have Rolex, I have Omega, I have Panerai, you know, I have all these brands. I have, you know, zenith. You know I have these watches that I have to keep up with, and it's nice to have watches. You don't have to do that. You know, and now I'm starting to look at watches. How can I get a watch into my collection? That A compliments my collection, you know. Two feels familiar, right, and, you know, is something that I love to wear and appreciate, and how is it a watch that I can just wear effortlessly? You know Exactly.
Speaker 1:You know, if something were to happen, you know it. I think you know when I, when that watch was stolen from me, um, and there was like six or seven other watches that were stolen, and they were, you know, invicta or this or that. You know it's something, something that that definitely caused grief, you know, like emotional grief, but it didn't. It didn't cause a lot of financial grief. You know, I'm not like, oh shit, like, you know, like having to file the insurance claims with the insurance company and, like, you know, like like losing sleep over and having to go file a police report and do all. And you know I did right, I did file a police report. But you know it's not something where I'm like, okay, I just got set back, like for the whole year, like I can't buy another watch for the whole year Cause I just lost, you know, lost a 6,000, $7,000 time piece, you know like. So it's nice to have that, it's nice to have a watch that can keep up with you and and not have to keep up with it.
Speaker 2:So it still looks good.
Speaker 1:That make you feel good. That's the whole concept of a watch. Yeah, it did that, and it did that very well. I did that very well. So we are literally coming now to, I mean, just over an hour, and I want to turn my platform over to you, if I can, you know. So we talked about a lot. We talked about you know the craftsmanship, the production, customer experience, values. You know the identity, the design philosophy. You know the future, right, the future right, the uh. You know, I can't wait to see some of the, the collections that your son names. But, um, but no, what? What would you like to say to our entire audience?
Speaker 2:60 countries are listening well, first I'd like to thank you, blake, for having us on the show. It's been really really, really interesting and wonderful discussion and you've asked some really great questions. But you know, we're just, we're very proud of our brand. We'd like people to you know, try out, come and discover us, go on the website, learn more about us, make sure you feel comfortable, do your research. But I think, have a look through our reviews. I think our reviews speak for themselves.
Speaker 2:Um, you know we've got people out there that have massive watch collections, are very high in watches, saying that you know our watches are equally, if not better, quality and make them also enable them to wear watches. But we're all about we're a brand that's based on two guys who absolutely love watches and we're very proud of the watches we produce. But we produce them for one reason, and that is exactly what you described before, and that is we want watches you can wear anywhere, feel comfortable, feel proud to wear them, not worry about the fact that you're going out to go to a beach or go swimming or where you happen to end up you can wear a watch, or worried about losing the watch or being. You know some countries you can't wear a nice watch anymore because you wear a high-value watch you may not make at home. Our watches are watches you can feel safe wearing anywhere, but you're still proud to wear them, and that's what we stand for as a brand. So get out there, learn more about us, hope comfortable.
Speaker 1:We'd love to be love to get on our customer list at some stage yeah, I mean, I think I think you touched on everything, everything that needs to be touched on, you know, and, and yeah, I again I'll, uh, I'll tell you where to mail my check okay, sounds, sounds good.
Speaker 2:Or your watch, or your replacement watch might be more appropriate place.
Speaker 1:That would be exceptional. And, um, and again, I want to thank you for spending so much time with us, for, you know, for being willing to sit down and have this conversation. You know it's it's challenging. I'm starting to realize how challenging it is to have these conversations. You know, um, know um, because you know, the more and more I have podcasts, you know, I guess it becomes harder and harder to get podcast guests on because they're like, oh, I don't, I don't feel like I line up with, you know, some of these all-star people that we've had. So, um, and as our podcast grows, you know, people feel, I guess, in a weird way, less, uh, less likely to come on. It's very weird, that's right it's the exact opposite.
Speaker 2:I feel very you know, very grateful you invited us. It's been wonderful, um, and we love talking about our brand and, as I say, the biggest challenge for us is getting people to understand who we are and what we stand for. And, uh, you know, podcasts like this can only help us in a very positive way.
Speaker 1:It's a great outlet. It's a great platform. Let's leave it on that high note. Let's leave it on that high note.
Speaker 2:And everybody.
Speaker 1:I am certainly going to link Panzera in the description here. You definitely should check them out. Like I said, it's a brand that really holds true to me and, uh, and this is our first, our first time actually meeting, ironically, so I have no affiliation to these guys, except the fact that they somehow found me and somehow wanted to come on my podcast and reach out.
Speaker 2:You've had one of my watches a long time ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's not a joke. It's not a joke, and maybe I'll have to see if I can dig up some old wristpicks. I'm sure there's pictures of me floating around on my phone or maybe on my hard drives, of me, you know, living life with my Pantera. Maybe I can try and use that for the thumbnail.
Speaker 2:Reach out to me after this and we'll see if we can get a replacement sorted out for you, because we might have nostalgic value for you it certainly will.
Speaker 1:It certainly will, andrew. Thank you so much. Send my regards to roger, who I've also never communicated with and and will do. Thank you so much for coming on the lonely wrist very nice, great to be here.
Speaker 2:Thanks, blake, talk again soon. You got it, take care.
