Preserving 160 Years of Zenith Watchmaking Excellence with Laurence Bodenmann

Meet the guardian of horological history at one of Switzerland's most storied watchmaking houses. As Head of Heritage for Zenith, Laurence Bodenmann oversees a treasure trove that would make any watch enthusiast weak at the knees—more than 1.3 kilometers of archives and a collection exceeding 5,000 timepieces that document the brand's 160-year journey.

Drawing from her background in anthropology, Bodenmann approaches watch history not simply as a catalog of beautiful objects, but as a window into human innovation and problem-solving. She reveals how Zenith became the first fully verticalized watch manufacturer in Switzerland, revolutionizing production methods and challenging traditional approaches. This pioneering spirit helped the brand accumulate an astonishing 2,333 precision awards throughout its history—concrete evidence of their pursuit of the "perfect watch" that inspired the company's celestial name.

The conversation takes us through Zenith's remarkable achievements, including the development of the El Primero, the world's first fully integrated automatic chronograph movement. We learn how a daring act of preservation by watchmaker Charles Vermot—hiding stamps and tools in the factory attic during the quartz crisis—saved this horological treasure for future generations. Bodenmann shares surprising discoveries from the archives, including evidence that Zenith may have pioneered the use of ceramic in watchmaking as early as 1981, years before it became industry standard.

What sets Zenith's approach to heritage apart is their philosophy of never merely copying vintage designs. Instead, they study historical pieces to understand the "why" behind their creation, then reimagine them with modern technologies and subtle design differences that respect both the past and present. This balance between tradition and innovation defines the brand's four distinct collections, from the experimental Defy line to the historically-inspired Chronomaster series.

Want to experience this rich history firsthand? The Zenith manufacture welcomes visitors through UNESCO tours—a rare opportunity to walk through the same buildings where watchmaking history has been made for over a century and continues to evolve today.

Check Out Zenith:

https://www.zenith-watches.com/

https://www.instagram.com/zenithwatches/

Book a tour of the Manufacture here:

https://www.zenith-watches.com/en_us/brand/visit-the-manufacture

Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Zenith's Head of Heritage
• 14:08 Zenith's 160th Anniversary Celebration
• 28:36 The First Verticalized Manufacturer
• 41:56 El Primero Development & History
• 54:23 Defining a Zenith Watch
• 1:08:16 The Revival Process
• 1:23:57 Managing 1.3 Kilometers of Archives
• 1:39:58 Memorable Stories & Future Projects

Transcript

Blake Rea: 0:00

Hello everybody, welcome back to another episode here of the Lonely Wrist Podcast. I am your host, as always, blake Ray, and today's guest lives at the crossroads of history, design and storytelling. She is the head of heritage for one of my favorite watch brands. I'm sure you guys already know that I am talking about Zenith. I'm sure you guys already know that I am talking about Zenith. She carries more than 160 years of watchmaking excellence while keeping it relevant for the new generation. Her work is not only about preserving watch archives, but it is bringing the brand's legacy to life through products, experiences and narratives that connect the past to the present. Please welcome for the first time, in two different ways, having Zinathon for the second time and the first director or head of heritage of any watch brand to come on the show. Please welcome Lawrence Bodeman.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:04

Thank you so much, Blake. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to join you for this.

Blake Rea: 1:11

Yeah, this is fun. I'm so excited. Obviously, we've talked. Funny enough, I was actually working on some of my content from Watches and Wonders. I know I'm still so working on some of my content for from watches and wonders, I know I'm still so behind on all of that and during the 160th anniversary party, like I'm filming, and then I pan over and there you are, standing right there and so like we were maybe like five feet away from each other before I knew, before I knew you and who you were, and and then after now we're working on another project together and I formally got connected to you. I just thought that was kind of fun and there was some irony there.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:51

Well, that's great. What did you think about the 160th booth?

Blake Rea: 1:57

It was amazing. It was amazing, yeah, it was amazing. The party was exceptional. You guys, yeah, I mean all the releases were amazing. I mean the GFJ, right, I mean that was the one I think that stole the show. In my opinion, and just to see you guys kind of having fun with you know your heritage pieces or you know your core collection, I guess is probably a better representation. Yeah, that was amazing. And the DJ the DJ was really good. You had a good DJ. You guys hired him.

Laurence Bodenmann: 2:28

We know how to party, it seems.

Blake Rea: 2:30

I see that.

Laurence Bodenmann: 2:34

The idea was to go and travel through 160 years of history, but not in a heavy way. It was to celebrate the generations of the Zenitians all around the world with 160 years of advertisement, of milestones, not from a zenith perspective, but of what it brought to watchmaking. And then you had also the, the pillars. With our, our colleagues from the marketing team, they did an extraordinary job on the manufacturer, bringing on the manufacturer to the two watches and wonders, actually, because it was the first verticalized manufacturer in Switzerland. So hence the name Zenith. And also we wanted to say not everything that we had done for 160 years, but who we are today with 160 years of legacy. So the pillars, the pillars of the collections and the heritage, distinctive ingredients. That's triggered.

Blake Rea: 3:43

I didn't. I didn't realize that until, like, I sat down with Ava Obviously Ava is a good friend of mine and the channel and she helped when I did the manufacturer tour and she was I mean, she's lovely but after she showed us some of the pieces, she took us through the back, like offices there, and was showing us all the furniture that she pulled in for you know so, every single room you know like I guess it was like a, like a conference room or like a meeting room where you guys meet with your partners or whatever your, your, your retailers every single room was decorated to like a specific period and the furniture was designed to match that period.

Laurence Bodenmann: 4:21

And I was like wow, amazing job. Like also it's it's in line with a, with a keeping history on the level of what interesting people like uh oh oh, you have like these icons of design, but wait, you have created icons of design. So yeah, this, I'm glad you had fun I, I loved it.

Blake Rea: 4:46

The party was amazing. I got this I. So I was really like right there when the cake was coming out and I have, like you guys, had a one, a six and a zero cake and they passed me and then I guess you had some like I don't know if he was like some korean ambassador or some I don't know some, some guy on stage.

Laurence Bodenmann: 5:04

I don't, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know anything about all that but but no, yeah, that's because they are Vince ambassadors and and it's cool because they all came. You know, it's actually a Japanese ambassador.

Blake Rea: 5:16

Oh, okay, I'm sorry, sorry.

Laurence Bodenmann: 5:18

Yeah, but it's, it's not we. The cake was also made from an ambassador, so we have this, this connection also with people that are really like they did. They are not being. We don't force them to to to wear their watches, they just want to do it and they want to do the cake and so on. So that's like a happy family celebration yeah, yeah, no mean, it was amazing.

Blake Rea: 5:46

Also, in tragic news, I hate to bring up tragedies, but one of your ambassadors passed away recently, felix Baumgartner. I'm sure you've probably heard about that.

Laurence Bodenmann: 5:57

Of course, of course, and it is definitely like we paid tribute to him, not knowing this, you can see there see, there was an advertisement showing his free fall that's definitely one of the feet that is marking the history of Zenith, one of the distinctive features that people associate with Zenith.

Laurence Bodenmann: 6:24

So very important moments and actually kind of great. This is something I didn't tell anyone outside of the manufacturer. We are living intern moments because we are doing the 160th Cine Club. You know when you have films in cinema and you have a club looking at this. Well, we are very lucky to have movies from 1906. Oh, wow, Already in the first it's the first, one of the first of the state of Neuchatel here, and then Zenith subsequently consequently went on with different films all over the years and what we did is a selection of these movies and in one of these important movies you can see actually the jump from the stratosphere. So even my colleagues don't know it yet and this is going to be great, you know, being together to rediscover these things.

Blake Rea: 7:38

Yeah, and most people don't know that he had oh, is it a chronomaster, Some type of? He had some type of chronomaster on his wrist when he jumped from yeah, it was yeah yeah, crazy, you know.

Blake Rea: 7:52

And to think some of my friends are scared to play tennis with their watches, you know, so let's jump into it. I, yeah, I'm curious about how you got into place with Zenith and the Heritage Department and tell us about your evolution of preserving the legacy of the brand. I don't think anybody on my podcast has ever had this type of experience, so this is crazy for us.

Laurence Bodenmann: 8:21

So okay, so, so with great pleasure. I'm actually an anthropologist, so it's about being being interested in in what how people function and and their representations and the norms and representations that guide their actions. Also the social actions. And of course, it's the best the to to work with sources to try to reconstruct the logics and the states of mind behind the developments in a manufacturer like zenith, because Zenith I then started in a museum, actually in public collections, and we all knew you know it was. For example, I also work on your continent at the NAWCC's museum in Colombia, oh wow.

Laurence Bodenmann: 9:22

It was a great place, I mean, and the library is extraordinary. And wow, it was a great place, I mean, and the library is extraordinary, and the membership. So the people are with their chapters. It's amazing. It's what does the watchmaking? And we all knew from the museum world that Zenith had all its sources. Like you may know, we have sources. Like you may know, we have more than one kilometer archives. It's actually 1.3, so we're going towards the mile of archives, and that's not even counting the ones from the past years. So that's amazing. We have more than 5 000 pieces in the collection, not only wristwatches or pocket watches, all sorts of timekeepers and even objects and the tools machinery was built on site at Zenith. So it's basically a playground, incredible playground.

Laurence Bodenmann: 10:21

To go beyond what was done, the final product, and to try to understand why it was developed this way and not the other way. By going and having a peek into these sources, you go into the logics of the persons that did it, and persons not only individuals but as groups, like, for example, where do they put the identification number? It means something. It's not always like it's. I'm not only talking about Zenit watches now, it's about any watch or any object. Actually, where do you identify it? Does it mean that this part is going to be interchangeable or not?

Laurence Bodenmann: 11:16

Thanks to the identification number, what is the component that decides which reference it is? Is it the combination of dial and case, or is it just the case? And then you have variations of dials, things like this that you would never be able to access to without having these sources at disposal, because and this is actually what kind of happens in the, in the, in museum collections is that you have these amazing objects documenting the history of watchmaking, but you never get to to, to, to have peek into their production registers and the context of productions. And this is what brought me here, and this is also what heritages are about. You have this mission of not only it's not only about preserving the legacy, you know about preserving the legacy, you know it's about preserving the sources that help you make the what was done understandable to the current teams and to the collectors, and to yourself, to the, because you have to understand why, and then, by doing this, you are basically developing the legacy that is crazy.

Blake Rea: 12:51

I think so. I hope so were before you at the brand and trying to get into their thought process and trying to not only preserve the time pieces that they built but preserve their strategy and their way of thinking, their execution. Super interesting, super crazy, and I'm sure that's probably a very challenging task. But I'm super curious because I've been through some of the archives when I was there with Ava and I'm curious. You know, obviously having such a vast archive, like you probably discover new things every day, which is probably interesting. And then what is more exciting to you as somebody who's in charge of heritage? Is it finding a diagram that represents a movement, or an illustration of a watch that never existed, or is it even finding a piece that maybe was buried in the back of the vault or something? What's the most interesting to you?

Laurence Bodenmann: 14:03

Every single one of these things you mentioned happened. So it's, it is, it is, it is our, our daily job to uh, to make new discoveries and uh, you know, for example, one of the the the last discoveries we made is, uh is basically about these firsts. You know, you always want to document the firsts and, because it's one of the actually good, super good question of the colleagues, also to help understand what distinguishes Zenit from today's perspective also and it's not the first and not necessarily acknowledged as being first at the time they are done, because people will just do it and then afterwards you realize, oh, and one of these this first hidden first was was the first use of ceramic in watchmaking, it seems. Use of ceramic in watchmaking it seems.

Laurence Bodenmann: 15:05

Wow, so known so far. We are in 1981. And Zenith on the like, completely futuristic watch model, uses parts in ceramic. So not the complete watch is a case in a ceramic, but one of the features is in ceramic. So not the complete watch is a case in a ceramic, but one of the features in is in ceramic. And in a total, totally different logic. And this is where it starts being interesting. It's like oh, why would they use ceramic at the time? Well, maybe it's to to have an extra high, to to put the level of the glass a bit higher, to leave room for the, for the hands on the dial interesting, that's crazy it's going to be like it's super crazy.

Laurence Bodenmann: 16:02

And there you are, I mean, it's just that. And and then yesterday I, I found, uh, I found I'm just pointing to that direction because the archives are there that, uh, jean-pierre gerber, that's the former director of uh, of technical bureau here at zenith, he, he, he, we are going to eat together next week again. And and he was mentioning, oh yeah, you know, uh, I'm thinking about the, the archives I've gave on the development, on the of the elite caliber, and you're like, oh, so I, when was it? Okay, so, it was before. Then you find them again and you're like, oh, he had answered the questions in, actually in 1994. That's the year it was released of why they did the things, the way they did.

Laurence Bodenmann: 17:00

And this is like this is the Braille of heritage. That's what you always look after. And the colleagues, they ask you okay, so could we know why? And then you're like in the detective mode and going through the things and triangulating the things, and there you have it on a plate, on a silver plate. It's okay, so we wanted to do this. And you're like this never exists. And he was answering questions from a journalist, just like you. So no, it's great and you're as excited. You're just excited, I guess, because it's there. Yeah, there is. Zenith has all the treasures and and it's, it's there, but you don't come to the realization of it being treasures and and less, and until you.

Laurence Bodenmann: 18:03

You have a question asking for it yeah so my colleague yeah, special guest no um so, uh, so. This is, this is what makes it so, uh, so incredible and exciting is the fact that you know it's there for everyone to find it. But how is the context with the colleagues, the collectors, the persons that trigger the questions, so that you would come to the realization of it being important?

Blake Rea: 18:49

yeah, yeah it's. It's crazy because I mean, I'm I'm a huge watch collector. Not only am I a watch nerd, but I've I've been lucky enough to to acquire some zenith watches in my collection and and I I feel like it's such a brand that has such a rich history and you know, I've said this to Romain like that, you know, I feel like modern Zenith is underappreciated, like you know multiple times, and I think Romain knows that as well. But you're like one of those like nerdy watch brands that like embrace the watch nerds and I love that in a weird way. That's a compliment, of course, but super curious because as a brand, you guys are known for a lot of technical firsts. You talked about Ceramic, the first fully integrated chronograph, el primero.

Blake Rea: 19:47

I'm curious yeah there's so many other ones that you know. Those are the two that most people know, but one of the first.

Laurence Bodenmann: 19:56

First that is super important is, of course, the first verticalized manufacturer in switzerland yeah, the first real in-house. This is what we talked about just now, like celebrating in watches and wonders, because this is very important and it's it's what explains a lot about the Zenith name. Also, why the Zenith name? You know, you, if you are bringing a brand new way of organizing the production, that is a way that was used 15 years before the creation of Zenit in one country, and that was yours, that was in the.

Laurence Bodenmann: 20:39

States by the American watch company. So it was something that was only 15 years old. And there this, georges Faljacot, the founder, this mustache guy, very strong headed and visionary, and everything he's like. Okay, I'm in Le Loc, I'm in the capital of chronometry in the world of watchmaking, precision watches. I am going to bring in here what brings more precision and more reliable quality to the production, scattered among diverse workshops, with every workshops being super specialized in one of the operations. Let us bring everyone under one same roof so they would coordinate better. We will bring on interchangeability so the quality would be there, it would be insured and it would be reproductible.

Laurence Bodenmann: 21:47

And he's being criticized a lot because you don't just disturb a way of products producing in the heart of traditional watchmaking, where people believe it has to be done a certain way to keep on the know-hows and so on. So basically, what he has to do is to say, okay, now with this and that was the essence of the manufacturer from the start I want to create and strive for the perfect watch, and the perfect watch it's the zenith of what could be done. And if you are doing this and you just, he was very, and his nephew also. That was the second director of zenith, very versed in marketing, like marketing, didn't just wait the 50s to exist. They were really strong in that competence as well. And you go with the name, that will attract the success. But it's not enough. You also have to prove it. And this is why there is another first in the history of Zenit it's actually the record number of awards in precision and among these awards of precision. So that's chronometry international competitions.

Blake Rea: 23:16

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurence Bodenmann: 23:18

You know how many prices.

Blake Rea: 23:21

I'm assuming it's going to be more than 100.

Laurence Bodenmann: 23:24

It's 2,333. Jeez, I, I'm assuming it's going to be more than 100 it's 2333, so he then. Hence you have the question like how, how come? I mean, it's superb and everything, but how come there are so many prices? Obviously it relies on the quality of the watches, but at first, to have this acknowledge, you have to compete, and each time this would be like investing in the participation but also in the development of dedicated laboratory, a department in the manufacturer that is entirely dedicated in perfecting the movements, just like working on them, like racing cars to win the competition. So it's a lot of investment, and why would you do so if you didn't have to prove that your way was best?

Laurence Bodenmann: 24:23

Yeah, that makes sense this is also linked to this first verticalization. And then you have the first five years in a row monopolizing the first position in the competition international competition with the 135, between 50 and 54.'s so so that's so cool was was a bit annoying for the competition maybe you should bring out one of those, those competition chronometer, pocket watches and a future anniversary they

Laurence Bodenmann: 25:06

are they are. It's a very, very good idea. They are actually in the in one of the exhibits from the heritage we have here in house. It's a dedicated to precision, of course, and uh, and you have, like one example of this, one watch that just itself won the competition four different times in four different years.

Blake Rea: 25:32

That seems like a good one, good candidate.

Laurence Bodenmann: 25:35

It's the Zenit caliber, so that's the architecture you immediately recognize from the Zenit pocket watches, immediately recognized from the zenith pocket watches, starting in 1897 for these zenith pocket watches and uh being the core of the uh, the uh of the the watches until nearly the the 40s and even even beyond for pocket watches. Yeah, because then they were being developed into wristwatches and, of course, being perfected also to that usage.

Blake Rea: 26:14

It was the caliber 135 that won the most awards, or something Isn't that accurate. Did I understand that correctly? Yes, I'm well-versed. Oh wow, I need to unblur, but no, I've been working on using this for some upside down. Some of this for my. This is my archive yeah, so this is the.

Laurence Bodenmann: 26:39

What we just showed is the 150th anniversary book that we that was done by zenith 10 years ago exactly and and yeah, it's it's great way to to distinct, to to go through the different domains that represents zenith's distinction is there a period you know?

Blake Rea: 27:01

you talked about vertical integration, which I think we all appreciate. Now Every single brand is now doing that. What do you feel like in your position and I've I mean, I've went through this book multiple times. Obviously, I'm working on some projects with you guys. What do you feel like are some of the most underappreciated moments throughout the history of the brand?

Laurence Bodenmann: 27:28

appreciated moments throughout the history of the brand it's. It's a good question because basically every I mean 160 years.

Laurence Bodenmann: 27:34

Everything is important, so so and really like being in heritage departments. You have no favorites and and they're and so on, but it's definitely interesting to go into the first years of the manufacturer also to to understand more about this, this development of this new way of of producing, and, and then you have, like I mean, the eighties. They are also interesting. You know, you're in the period like you just reacted this way also and it's right because people are like oh my God, this is where the industry, this is where the industry they lost, like in Chaux-de-Fonds, which is the nearby town, the horological town, and it was called open-air manufacturer. That was so linked to watchmaking, unesco recognized and so on. In the 80s they lost three quarters of their employees in watchmaking and the Confederation of Switzerland even stroked the profession watchmaker at that point Because they felt and they believed it was over.

Blake Rea: 29:01

Dead.

Laurence Bodenmann: 29:03

And going through these crisis times is underrated. That's where you actually find how and why it continued the development. What were the developments at that stage? How did they reorganize and so on. And this is where you actually feel the distinction then of okay, oh, I see, when things are doing great, you can benefit from the laurels, and so on.

Laurence Bodenmann: 29:41

Not that Zenith took the easy path, because, as you know, the El Primero was developed at the heart of the golden age of Zenith. So, basically, what's the most amazing is that they could have really like they wanted to celebrate their 100th anniversary with these new feet in watchmaking never heard of anything, and they could have said okay, just we take an old caliber and we put on an automatic like an oscillating mass and this is it, you know. And they are like no, no, no, we want it to be like the first, but in everything, the first high frequency. We want it to be the first modern chronogram also. So that meant this is going to be a bit geeky.

Laurence Bodenmann: 30:33

This was told to us by, actually, the makers of the El Primero, which we found back, and they were 23 years old to 30 years old at the time. So we found them back like it was in 2019. So six years ago, and like super dynamic guys, and they were like I asked them, okay, with a with a technical description of the hair primero in my hand and the plans and everything we have, and I was like, okay, so how would you describe what you see? You know, just right how would you do?

Laurence Bodenmann: 31:12

and they're like it's just what you see, so it's the thinnest. And you're like what? What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah, it's 6.5, and it was supposed to be the thinnest. Also automatic watch on the market, even though it was a chronograph, and so that was, oh yeah, that was a challenge also, and it took us like so many, so many months just for this thing, and then we were late on the revealing, on the El Primo, and you're like, ok, ok, ok, and okay, okay. And then they're. And of course do you know that at the time they, uh, they were still filing the functions, so no, I didn't know that and I mean we.

Laurence Bodenmann: 32:00

It's, it's the way. You kind of know this, but you don't know that it's the turning point and they were like with the El Primero we didn't want this. We wanted to have the first modern chronograph, meaning you would stamp all the components to the exact dimensions that when you assembled it together, you would click and it would work the famous stamps. You know that Charles Vermeer hid in the attic.

Blake Rea: 32:30

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurence Bodenmann: 32:32

So they were linked with this history as well, and so basically, yeah, zenith didn't sleep on its laurels. You can see that, that they really went on first, even amidst the golden ages. But the crisis, the crisis years, are also interesting, because then you get to see how people innovate in these phases as well as in the golden years.

Blake Rea: 33:07

That's so crazy, I'm sure. So my question here and I'm sure everybody who's been in the exact same role as you has asked and answered this question to themselves, but never publicly what do you define as a Zenith watch Like? Is it movement, design, is it the philosophy, is it like everything combined, like? You know what is the epitome of a Zenith watch when you guys are producing or reviving, or you know what? What is that to you?

Laurence Bodenmann: 33:39

It's actually you know. As an anthropologist, I just want to ask you back it's actually, you know. From my perspective, it's really a researcher perspective. A Zenith watch is a watch that bears the Zenith name and or was developed by the manufacturer, and there is nothing too abstract about it.

Laurence Bodenmann: 34:04

You have sources to acknowledge the development. So that's how you can determine okay, this is definitely a Zenith watch in this part, or maybe it was. The watch has lived a bit and maybe it's not as it was when it left the manufacturer. Because you see the sources and you're like, okay, so this has changed a bit, and so on. And so you go through the uh, through these sources, and they are the connection to acknowledge the belonging of us in. But what do you think?

Blake Rea: 34:43

I think, well, obviously, precision right To me. I think, heritage right. Ironically, I think, when I think about a Zenith, I think about historical accuracy, and then I guess the thing that kind of spins on my wheels is the finishing, the attention to detail, the decoration, the. You know, yeah, I, I. Zenith is a brand that is weird to me, because you guys are like like, you're like too, like bipolar in the sense because you're pushing the envelope in terms of technical achievements, right still to this day, but then you have a whole second department of, or maybe like customer fan base, like me, that loves all the historical like reproductions, or, you know, even the vintage pieces, right. So you're like, you know there's no middle ground for Zenith. You're like, you know, the heritage team and then the modern team, you know.

Laurence Bodenmann: 35:47

Yeah, actually it's very interesting because we were the first heritage department. To my knowledge department is part of the development team. We work really my closest colleagues are the designing team and this is because it is alive. The heritage is not the past and you should never reproduce the past. So there is no contradiction between the past and the modern. You can see it like a pyramid, the author of Zenith. So you have, like the core collection. They are all about the new developments never heard of and this is going to be the heritage of tomorrow.

Laurence Bodenmann: 36:55

Then you have the watches for the vintage lovers gone modern, you know, like ones that like the vibe of yeah, they like the vibe of the vintage look, but they still want to have like the last technical developments available and a modern twist. And on this I will come back to this. But on this segment, even and especially on this segment, you never copy the past. So you have this vibe, but it's always possible to distinguish it from one single glance to the original ones which are at the top of the offer, that's the icons, that's the vintage, original watches that are basically like, if you want to go into the past really, then you go and you hunt for these watches, then you bring them back here. You, you restore it in the pure hundred percent restoration ethic.

Laurence Bodenmann: 38:09

That is not servicing, that's not like exchanging components. It's servicing the the zenith way, in the way that you have actually a choice, and in this case we take the option of keeping everything original and everything that wasn't original we replace it with something that an original component or a component that is reproduced in this way, completely faithful to the original plans and everything that we have, of course, at disposition. So certification and so on. So, basically, that's the integration of the past and the modern. But we never I mean I hope people don't feel of heritage as being something that you have to look back to. You have to look back to it. It's the heritage, it's the identity of the manufacturer of a company, and it is ever-evolving as the distinction of the company evolves. It's what you retain from what was already done that helps you distinguish the proposition of this company today.

Blake Rea: 39:34

That makes sense and so it's very challenging. It's very challenging this whole concept and strategy and even execution. But you know you talked about the pyramid, right? So at the bottom, your core collection and then the top being, you know your middle being your modern.

Laurence Bodenmann: 39:51

Yeah, the foundation is always about the new. You always project in the foundation, you always project yourself into what hasn't been done and that is keeping with the distinction, the identity of Zenit, but in a completely new way that is embodying today's possibility, the crazy creative ideas of our development teams, and so on. And if they want to inspire themselves on the vintage model, like for the extreme diver, just taking this example, then first they grow through understanding why the vintage divers were developed, in which context, what they were thriving for, what they had at their disposal to achieve it, and then they say, okay, now the heritage is there for this. It's to make this contextualization and to dig in, to research the data so that they have this idea.

Laurence Bodenmann: 41:19

And then, basically, for the vintage diver watches, they didn't certify them as diver watches.

Laurence Bodenmann: 41:27

They didn't need to because at the time it was like they called in for a press conference. They they were on on the border of the channel, you know, in Ostend, actually, so up north, and they were like they had all these journalists, fairies, ferry boats attached the DeFi under DeFi ferry boats made them have going, sorry, going in one direction, then coming back. And then they tested it and they were like so there is no single drop of humidity in there, even though it remained more than an hour under the sea, with all the turbulences, impacts, difference of temperature. It's precise as it was, and so on, and this was their certification. So, basically, our teams knowing this, they were like oh, but we are going to, you know, like, complete the story, but with a completely new take on what should be a diver watch today. So, like, with some new material, you have the luminescence also that is essential to this model. You also have all the shock tests and everything, and, completely, you have this vibe. You can connect the two, but you can never see something that repeats itself.

Blake Rea: 43:15

That makes a lot of sense and I love that. I just love that. I just love that. I love that to me when I, as a third party, when I look down at the zenith brand and I look at the collection, it seems like you guys are are using the defy collection is like your sandbox, right where you guys have the most fun, you do the most experimentation. You know you guys have a little bit of fun in the chrono master collection like don't, don't get me wrong there, but I mean it seems like I mean, we talked yeah, yeah, we I mean we talked about this that that the whole, the whole defy collection was like a rebellious collection, like in our last conversation this, this

Laurence Bodenmann: 43:57

states actually from 2017. This take on the DeFi pillar you know the DeFi statement from the start is a watch that would defy any shocks that would have reason of any other watch, so that would break any other watch. So we are not far from saying, okay, it defies the tradition, basically, and this is what our teams of uh of direction, product development, they were like okay, so we, we have all these crazy ideas again and we want to try them and there are so many possibilities and go to the defying the limits and the boundaries is what we can do with DeFi because of the name that Zenit has and others don't have it. But do you know when it was trademarked?

Blake Rea: 45:01

It was like in like 1910 or something right Somewhere around there, Like it was a long time ago, 1902.

Laurence Bodenmann: 45:08

Okay, I knew it was a long time ago and it was very close and it's actually the first use of this name. I suspect it was even before 1902, but it was trademarked officially in 1902 and you have also the the pilot collection. This this is very interesting because we were talking about the first. So then it's first and only one to have trademarked and being able to trademark, hence the name Pilot. So this is 1888, 1-888.

Laurence Bodenmann: 45:46

It's very easy to remember and you're like, oh my God, this is like a treasure that we can benefit from and lots of others are jealous of this possibility and so on. So with this it was the opportunity to have the identity of a pilot watch and what people usually connect them with evolve towards the 21st century with a more like organic watch that is like a second skin that you immediately, with this 0.007 second, jump on the double date very difficult on the technical level. And this is this is like treasure for the heritage in 20 years, because this was documented and let's see if it interests them also in 20 years. That's the bit of the what I was saying their treasures. Now, what do you make out of this? And and so you going further means in this case for the pilot, that you could also use the name pilot on the dial to still attest this is a pilot watch nobody else can do that and this was done.

Laurence Bodenmann: 47:15

So you're right, you have like this challenge of boundaries. This is definitely the DeFi collection and the pilot is going through this instrument watch, but in a much agile, more agile way that talks to the need of own ergonomics of the owner. They want to be able to wear it with whatever they wear, like smoking if they want to, and so on, and not be forced to bring in the leather jacket. And then, of course, the Chronomaster, and this is the heart, this is the heart exercise, also from my colleagues from the design team. That's basically the chronomaster.

Laurence Bodenmann: 48:06

It has to keep in with this legacy master of chronograph, but still, we just had the meteorite chronomaster gone out with this press release sent by my lovely colleague, isabel, and uh and uh, it's like okay, I mean, you can't say that it's not innovation. Huh, it's a, it's a, it's super innovative to have it in in an el primero and so on, because you're, you're like okay, so what, what? So what is the word of this and how is it connected? And it makes sense because of the possibility to have this innovative way of showcasing dial that has otherwise remained the same more or less for more than 50 years, so it's.

Blake Rea: 49:06

It's also very much on brand, because zenith right is the highest star in the sky.

Laurence Bodenmann: 49:12

Right, that's what it means it's uh, it's, it's the highest point. No, it's the. It's the point that is vertically, vertically positioned above your head. So it is the highest point. To see a point that is at your zenith, then you need to do this to tilt your head and hence to reach for something that is almost unreachable. So the perfect watch.

Blake Rea: 49:45

So, with that in mind, you guys take a lot of inspiration from from from the. You know astronomical inspiration, right? So, like you know, you see all these other brands that have meteorite dials but, like, your entire brand is based on the stars and the highest star in the sky. I was looking back as I was prepping for this interview. I went back and listened to my interview with Roma and we had talked briefly about one of my friends here in Vegas. She used to sell Zenith watches and the retailer I don't know what happened, but the retailer no longer sells your brand and every time I walk in there I'm wearing one of my Zenith watches, just because I know she's obsessed with the brand.

Laurence Bodenmann: 50:32

Yeah.

Blake Rea: 50:34

And something that made her obsessed with the brand was, you know, she had sold so many of your watches and she reached a certain milestone. But what the leadership team did was they bought a star in the sky for her and named it after her son, and they gave her like a certification that says, hey, here's your star named after your son.

Laurence Bodenmann: 51:00

And you know we have a watch. I mean, mean, this is part of heritage.

Blake Rea: 51:03

I want to see that, yeah I'll text her, I'll text you and so so, for for me, just seeing her passion for the brand, I have maybe nine watches or something and so obviously I only have, I can only wear one at a time, right, well, maybe I could wear two, but I choose to wear one and I let her borrow like one of, like, I have like a gold Stella Tina, and I just got that back from her and she had it for like over a year and uh, and yeah, I, I, you know how, like, like, it's like, how can I ask for that back because she loves it so much but it's my watch, you know, curious, curious, curious.

Blake Rea: 51:48

So when you guys are going through the revival, like processor reissues you know you guys call them revivals and when I was going through the attic, like, and you know, you know you have everything organized by caliber, right, like, and there's a bunch of empty spaces there. So I'm assuming that you guys are using all the original tooling, you know you guys are, you know, pulling all the archives that you have and you know obviously there's no, there wasn't CAD back in the day, but any blueprints or diagrams or drawings, and so when you guys are doing your revivals, it's all about historical accuracy, is that right?

Laurence Bodenmann: 52:30

So first about the attic.

Laurence Bodenmann: 52:32

The attic is a very special place because it's the only place where you don't touch I told you about. Like heritage, it has to be lived. It's not about the past and so on, but in the attic, that's where Charlie hid the stamps of the Primero and all the plans and everything that were used afterwards to relaunch it into production, and it's actually the place where people before him all the generations of Zenithians, they, brought in the tools, the stamps that they weren't using anymore into production. So, basically, you have a place that is incredible, out of time, that tells the story of all the people that brought in what they weren't using anymore, and this you don't touch because you don't want it to tell your history of what you think, how you think it should be showcased.

Laurence Bodenmann: 53:38

Yeah, history of what you think how you think it should be showcased. Yeah, it tells the history of all these generations bringing their conservation into this place no, I was.

Blake Rea: 53:50

I was laughing, I understand your.

Laurence Bodenmann: 53:54

I understand your point. It's it's then. Then you're like because it's very tempting actually yeah the stamps of the 135 there yeah it's a good thing so did you guys have to reproduce them like, or did you just?

Laurence Bodenmann: 54:11

not we. We have the original plans of the 135 of, of course, and these they were used to be challenged. So what we did with the GFG collection, that's the fourth pillar of Zenith collections it's that we. So I gave to the technical bureau all the technical plants, vintage plants of the 135. They developed it in 3D on the CAD Well, not CAD, but on their program and with this they had a 2d development like drawing of the movement that they were doing. You know, you were saying that there was not cad at the time yeah of course they were.

Laurence Bodenmann: 55:16

They were from the start. They were people that drew plans and every time they had to make a change to perfect it, they had to do a new plan or to actually go over the plan, and so on. So you can imagine the possibilities of perfection, perfecting the calibers, and these calibers they want precision awards. So no problem at the time, but today, the powerful tools that we have at our disposition to actually re-challenge everything in the 135 to make it even more the perfect watch of what people would expect today. So, basically, for the developments, we use these sources, but just as, again, a first step to then re-challenge it In the segment that interests you, the revival because, you're a vintage lover, gun mother.

Blake Rea: 56:28

Yeah, that's why we're friends.

Laurence Bodenmann: 56:30

So in this segment, we have from the start put a rule together with Romain Maillardot.

Blake Rea: 56:38

Yeah.

Laurence Bodenmann: 56:39

You never want to copy a vintage watch, because you don't never want to lessen the rarity of an original vintage watch. So basically, you can keep the proportions and for this, of course, you have the help of the plants the original plants, but also of the watches from the collection. Like, there's more than 5 000 pieces in the collection and the technical bureau takes them, they, they reconstruct them, and then there is the twist. And the twist is brought in by the technical bureau and by the designing team From both sides. They are re-challenging what could be perfected. And there is a modern twist on the dial. You always have a transparent case back in honor of the manufacturing legacy, and you always have the newest logo of the, the company, on the crown. So basically, from every angle you see it, everyone can be able to tell the difference of the original and the revival. This is important that makes sense.

Blake Rea: 58:03

Yeah, when I went to the 160th, I've got a poster over here on my wall for all the different logos and uh, that to me, is so cool. I'm curious. You know, obviously you're working with the design team, like you said, are there are like let's go through the process of of the whole revival. Like in your mind, like you stumble upon an archive, maybe a piece in in the vault or whatever, and you go up to roman and we're like, hey, like this is the, this is the piece we need to bring back to life. I can't imagine it being that simple. But walk us through, like the process of bringing it back to life. You know, like you know how much, how much input do you have in the product design? You know, when it comes to a new piece like this one, like this one, so, basically, we have, we have no favorites at Heritage, like I was saying.

Laurence Bodenmann: 59:00

We have no favorites at heritage, like I was saying. So I'm definitely not the one going to roman and saying, okay, this is like superb and it should be, it should be done again. It is actually the direction, the markets, the product, the designing team, that's. They know, and it's true. I also give feedback on what is in the air in terms of preferences, what make people tick a bit and what interests them, and then the direction, the markets. You know there are so many models that they would dream because everyone they have favorites. I mean, it's the best because they actually live in this creation thing and they have the, the, the feeling that they uh, they find some treasures and so on, so that that is unique and they are like, oh, this would be so cool and to revive this it actually has to be distinctive to make sense, also because of this distinction. This comes from heritage, but it also has to uh to actually find its markets and to be something that my, my colleague, sebastian, with the director of design, he he would say it shouldn't be too outdated because otherwise it would be too niche and uh and uh, we are not, we don't. We are not fearing the fact that we are different. We are for we. We also aim at people that that that are really like lovers of the belle horlogerie, the beautiful watchmaking, like going.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:01:05

You were asking what Zenith watch was about in terms of philosophy, and I think it is about everyone here at the manufacturer. If you asked this person for the part that regarded its part of the development, why it's so, they have an answer. I mean, they don't leave the thing and explains like oh, just because, why? Yeah, really, it's a, it's a great. I would be interested if you could also challenge it from yourself, because I always get an answer and this is great. So, coming back to what we were saying, it's not just about, oh, just because we like them or because we think it's fantastic. This is not a good enough reason.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:02:03

You have also to think about where it's going to fit in and the way it's going to support the developments for the future. And this is how it works from the ignition part. And then you have the process of documenting the original one, with the coherence, so contextualizing and everything, but also with the sources, giving it to the technical bureau, giving it to the technical bureau. They develop something. It's being challenged by a design and put into this mind of revival, collection, the rules and what they want to do with it. Also with this specific model, and then with this saying okay, is this something that is going to click, is this something that is going to be in tomorrow's distinction of what distinguishes Zenit as well? Is it going to last? Also, if it does, it's released? Are there any references?

Blake Rea: 1:03:16

Sorry, go ahead. I was just going to say other.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:03:19

The production part. Of course I'm not dismissing it. You see it, it's what's happening in the complete buildings over there and, of course, once it's developed, it needs to be produced. And this is another part of the development, with control and something.

Blake Rea: 1:03:40

Setting all that aside aside, is there a piece that you personally found in the archives that you wish would be revived?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:03:55

oh, yeah, I love, no, no, no. I mean, for example, let me show you this. So, okay, I love this watch. Okay, this is my personal watch here. This is, captain, you see the spaceship filling, yeah we are in 1967 with this the indexes. They are actually like faceted indexes. You have this in white gold, yellow gold. This one is steel and it has this pop design because of this Art Deco vibe, futurist look.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:04:39

It's incredible, but I have the original one and I'm like, I'm a geek for, for the heritage of the future, I mean yeah I love personally, I love the poker chip and how they their take on this and the fact that you really I mean you're in vegas yeah you surely enjoy it, I'm sure I mean.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:05:07

Uh, it's uh, mean, it's incredible what they have done. They have realized the potential of this watch from today's perspective, I think, and it's great, and I can't wait for other developments like this. But I'm a fan of this gravity. Know this gravity, this zero gravity, defies and things that you think, oh my god, they are out of this world. This is. I want the watch from the future.

Blake Rea: 1:05:40

I mean this is what?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:05:42

yeah, when you stop doing this and the company would never stop doing this, I mean it's it's basically you're losing tomorrow's heritage.

Blake Rea: 1:05:53

So yeah, why I?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:05:57

perfectly understand the revival. Like I was saying, it's completing the potential yeah but it's, uh, as I saying, the core and the foundation of what pumps up the energy, the dynamic, the floods in this manufacturer. It's all about these new developments that have not yet come. I mean, you were naming yourself the GFG, yeah.

Blake Rea: 1:06:32

I mean that's exciting.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:06:36

That's a great watch. There is so much linked to an emblem of watchmaking. Yet you can't compare the vintage watch, and I was wearing a vintage one from the 135 and from the museum collection at Watches and Wonders Just to make the exercise. It's a very early model and I was putting it next to the new GFD and saying, okay, now just point to me something that is identical either on the movement or on the case, and I invite the people, the community that looks at this process, to really do the exercise. It's a game, really, where you're like, oh, but it's definitely the same vibe, but nothing is identical.

Blake Rea: 1:07:39

Yeah, I'm begging for a Big Lemon revival. You know you can use your 1,000 feet, 1,000 meter water pool like a thousand feet, a thousand meter.

Blake Rea: 1:07:52

yeah, not that I, not that I need that, but you know, I, I I'm the guy, I'm, I'm your ideal demographic because I love the vintage aesthetic but I love the modern twist, I love the silicon, you know, I love, like the exhibition case back, I let you know and and, yeah, you know, the the big lemons are impossible to find and so, like, when you guys just re-released your, you just came out the new, a new diver, like maybe I don't know like it was like a couple weeks ago and or a couple months ago, and and jessica had pictures like she was teasing she's big on instagram, so she had a bunch of lemons in her hand and I was like, I was like, oh shit, is this what I think it is?

Blake Rea: 1:08:39

And I texted her like big lemon, and she's like we'll see. And then I was like, and then it didn't come and I was like, oh man, damn it, you know like, but but no, that's one of my favorites in it to watch is like ever right, like, right there with the defy. The defy like the original device, it's incredible, it's incredible and yeah, it's definitely like a lemon.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:09:02

I mean the the case also, and to have these being thousand meter waterproof at the time, it's madness yeah, crazy are.

Blake Rea: 1:09:14

Are there? Do you still feel like there's?

Blake Rea: 1:09:16

I mean because, like you said, there's over 5 000 watches and there's, you know, almost over a kilometer of archives like I can't imagine in your entire yeah, yeah I can't imagine in your entire career that you you have the possibility to go through all of that stuff like so I'm assuming there's still undiscovered gems in the catalog that maybe every single day you're hoping to kind of stumble upon. And curiously, you know, because I'm a nerd like, how do you even store all that? Like, do you guys have like a vault with just a bunch of like documents in it? Like, do you have, like have you digitized everything? Like what do you guys? How do you guys keep up with all that?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:10:06

So very excited that so very excited we are right now. These more than 1.3 kilometer, one kilometer archives, so 1.3. Currently they are being centralized, meaning they are being brought together in two different parts of the manufacture where they will be like for the first time, all together in in two main places. And this is definitely, this is the gift that zenith is giving itself for the 160th anniversary. And it's been no really. And and it it's, you know, because we built library and all these archives to know how many there are. It's actually I was just going through the conservation of these archives in every department because they are the ones that brought it for now.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:11:10

So it didn't just like the heritage department. It dates from the 1980s already at zenith, very early, but of course they didn't wait 1980 to start keeping their timekeepers and archives. That's why we have so rich documentation Now. We have never had it in. It's so large, we have never had it in two different places, and even the idea is bringing it to one place, and there it's. Definitely, when you have everything like next to each other in an architecture, then you find other things that you were looking for and you didn't know they belonged together. So that's the big possibility and basically, the fact that we are continuously finding out new things.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:12:23

It's based on the fact that our interests and the questions they change first and this is valid for everything that regards heritage, but also the way it is being like, brought together as a tool, and on these uh, these uh archives.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:12:42

You never digitize everything, otherwise you have lots of noise in the data yeah it's impossible to find something, so it always has to go with how you hierarchy the information and the. You give the hierarchy to the information and in this case there are four levels of priority. And just talking about the first one, here it's everything that documents the production and the end products. These are digitized. Then you have, like it's a complete word in itself. You can go through the finance of the manufacturer, through the contracts and everything, the, the manufacturer, the, through the, the juridic contracts and everything. This is, of course, most interesting, but this is for internal use and it doesn't help. Identifying the production and this is this is why it's the priority of digitization is on what helps us to identify and certify and contextualize the end products, and about the collections. They are, of course, involved, but they are also in a semi-permanent exhibition inside the manufacturer. Yeah, yeah.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:14:12

Where they are. That's what you saw, and they change. But they are actually there to enhance the distinction and the identity of Zenith. And then you have, of course, punctual and temporal and changing exhibitions all around the world that are there to give the context, not in words, handwritten, but in realization, around the developments, the current what Zenith is doing currently, where you can just link it with very fast like oh, I understand where it comes from right, curious.

Blake Rea: 1:14:59

So you know, obviously the 1970s were a difficult period for zenith. You. You know obviously the quartz crisis. You know obviously the struggles and different ownerships taking place and trying to take the brand into a different direction. I don't know if this question has ever been asked or answered or maybe there was a very simple answer. But you know there was a period where Zenith Radio Corporation, you know there was a period where zenith radio corporation, you know, ordered the destruction of all the mechanical from my understanding, mechanical watchmaking components. Right that?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:15:49

you know, and is that that's the bad guys? Are the Swiss people Like you should?

Blake Rea: 1:15:57

No, we're the bad guys. We're the bad guys.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:15:59

You should go to Hamilton. I worked at the NAWCC in Colombia on the Hamilton archives that are there.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:16:07

It's a treasure, and for them the bad guys are Swiss people, and in Switzerland they love making the bad guys Americans, I mean. Bottom line is there was a revolution, technical revolution, and that was a radical revolution, not just incremental innovation. So the ones that really changed the way you would ever produce something. They didn't have to order anything, they just said, ok, now we have to go towards the future. Towards the future and the mechanical watches. They are not selling the way they were selling before. So we have all these components. Now let's assemble what we have and go through with our stocks before continuing producing everything new in terms of mechanical watches.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:17:11

And this is why, actually, the El Primero never got interrupted, the assembly of the El Primero. What got interrupted was the production of new components for the El Primero. They had it in stocks and hence the machinery and the well, basically the machinery that was used to to, uh, to do this. They were like, okay, what's it doing here? I mean, we don't need it anymore, we are not going to to do new components on these machines. So they were sold but, as you know, the tools and the documentation and the plans, they didn't have to express the fact that they weren't useful anymore. They just didn't answer Charles Vermeaux letter about having a safe place to put them and preserve them for if the fashion was going to change again.

Blake Rea: 1:18:23

Sure.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:18:25

And if he ever were to reproduce the El Primero. So they just didn't answer his letter. They were like, okay, and this is what Charles says in the video. This is an extraordinary document, an interview in 1991, where it's the public television.

Blake Rea: 1:18:51

I saw it. It's on the TV.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:18:54

Exactly, that's the only thing we added there where he can tell his history with his own words. And he was like it's not only the direction. His colleagues, they were like Charlie, you're being sentimental, it's all over, go on, evolve, go towards the future. He's like I mean, I'm not against the future. He was the developer of the premiere, one of the developers of of the premiere, meaning he actually was the head of the Blanks production. So he knew I mean, okay, you have to evolve. His brother was in charge of the stamps, the stamping tool, so he knew about developing new things, exciting things and so on. But he was like, okay, but let's not be hasty about this, because this has real quality and this, as a qualitative thing, should remain at our disposal so that we can still do something with it.

Blake Rea: 1:20:05

and is there it was right is there a way that, or maybe is there some type of indicator as during that period, like, how much of the archive, like did you guys lose any archives during that period? Like, was there anything?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:20:20

nothing was nothing really that's the biggest luck zenit has is that you have seen the buildings, and I trust I mean, if you haven't seen it to our viewers, go see the buildings of the manufacturer. It's 19 buildings. It's an industrial empire. This is what it means to verticalize the production. So from the start it was built super large and we never had the problem of place. So, basically, zenit never moved and since I mean you were talking about the 70s being difficult years, yeah, but we never failed I mean Zenit talking about the 70s being difficult years, yeah, but we never failed I mean Zenith never closed its doors, it never lost, it never went through a bankruptcy where nowadays you find, by strange places, bits of heritage from other companies because it was sold through a bankruptcy auctions, and this never happened to zenith. So they always had like all this place and and when, when you don't move, when you don't cease to exist, then basically you never, you never go through sorting the things out. And this sorting that we are doing right now with building this heritage platform, basically bringing everything together, this is something that never really had to do before. So basically, yeah, that's the big luck and that's one of the big reasons it has all the archives. And then there is one more thing that is really unexpected the fact that Zenit always ensured the repairability of its references. Now, this is linked to the verticalization of the manufacturer. Doing this, you bring in intangibility. Then if you have intangible parts and you ensure the repairability of the quality, then you need to have the archives to offer this service. So where are the production registers in the manufacturer, at the customer service? Because they needed to have it. I mean, now they are digitized, but they needed to have it daily to check.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:23:09

Okay, now I received this watch. It's over a century old, it seems. Now, what is it? What is the caliber? Where can I find the pieces and the components, the original components to refurbish it or to repair it or everything, and the link to plans to refabricate the components? So this is next to this big lock. This is a question of vision. This is one of a kind. I would really say that in the case of Zenit, this explains a lot.

Blake Rea: 1:23:49

Do you feel like customers care more about heritage now than they did like 10 or so years ago, or maybe even longer? I can see the smile on your face like I think I already know what you're gonna say you know, 10 years ago I was in a museum.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:24:07

So no, actually I was just starting, starting my work at Zenith, but I never ceased to work, also on the site for museums and I'm teaching and so on. So always in heritage. So it's basically no, they had this interest, but maybe it's showcased a bit more in these past years because there is also an engagement from the companies towards what they have done and what distinguishes them, and there they go in and enhance also pieces from the past that might have served as inspiration and this might also help for the general enthusiasm. And this is great because this is basically ensuring the preservation of the pieces that are. This ingredient we need, together with the archives, with the testimonies from the time, with even the buildings, the original buildings it was done in, to really contextualize what was done and why it was done.

Blake Rea: 1:25:23

So, yeah, Amazing, curious about you know. So you're wearing a captain. Is that, like your, your personal favorite zenith watch? Or what's your personal favorite zenith watch, modern or historical?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:25:40

what do you think?

Blake Rea: 1:25:42

I mean if you're wearing it. I mean the chronomaster, probably, maybe.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:25:49

I feel like that's a cliche answer I mean I, I really don't have a favorite. I have my, my, um, I have a pleasure, a great pleasure, to wear things that's I never get bored with. I mean where you, you have it on your wrist and from a different angle, you see something you hadn't noticed before and something it never gets like. Oh yeah, it's just what I already know yeah, and these, these are, I guess it's. It's the same for you. No, no.

Blake Rea: 1:26:27

Kind of maybe, yeah, yeah, for sure A little bit.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:26:32

I don't know, I've changed my mind like 10 times my colleague Sebastian I was talking about him before. He's basically wearing the watches they develop for three weeks or so and see if he gets bored by something and if he gets bored then you know that's a dream job and it's so, uh, it's.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:26:59

It's basically yeah, why wear something that's that's everyone? Everyone is different, they. We all have good reasons of of preferring one thing to the other. There might be also a very strong connection with uh, with uh, what you recognize in it, so that that's true as well, and this is important as well. For me, it's about the curiosity.

Blake Rea: 1:27:28

I'm starting to understand a little bit more, not only you, but your historian background, and there's always like a joke that goes around I guess maybe it's in America, maybe you've heard it but the Swiss has always been neutral, right, that's the joke, right. Been neutral, right, that's the joke, right. So funny because you interpret that into your work as well. You talked about maintaining a sense of neutrality that you don't want to prioritize this piece or that piece. It's just all. You have an emotional attachment to the stories around it and the documents behind it, but not the specific contents behind those documents and archives.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:28:20

That was perfect. It's not even really emotional. I mean, I guess it's enthusiasm really emotional.

Blake Rea: 1:28:30

I mean it's I guess it's enthusiasm but it's, it's uh.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:28:32

It will be interesting to see what's my my homologues from the other companies, and I'm sure you know we are very much connected because this is like it's a, it's a small family, you know, we come from the same kind of roots or we have crossed paths and we have worked together in the past or something, and it's a great community also, and it would be interesting to see what's their take on this, maybe. I mean, if I can dare to summarize the kinds of factors I've seen in the direction of the heritage department so far the scientists, they have no favorites. I mean, they have no favorites. It's all about research, and so it's not about liking something. It's all about research and so it's not about liking something, it's about finding out. And so there is this scientific researcher's perspective. There is the collector's perspective, exciting because it's something, a new way of looking at the value of what was done. Rare is best, maybe for them or for me. I mean, rare is interesting because it says that it wasn't the best seller in its days for example.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:30:06

So it kind of develops the. It's like a portal to better understand how it worked. You don't make just five pieces for something that is sold out, but for the collector's point of view, and some of them are really great heritage directors as well. They come from this perspective and they have their favorites, I guess. And then you have another very interesting posture. These are persons that evolved through the company. They were doing another job, like being in the customer service or in the markets international markets or something and suddenly, like they have gained so much knowledge about the brand as they know it and so on, that they are in charge of like heritage right they have another view and this is this is, uh, so far the different postures I see.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:31:21

I see, and it will be interesting to see how they, what are their methods and so on, because we exchange, of course, between each other and I can already see that we all have our strengths, you know, and these perspectives, and they are very important again to shift your usual perspective and bring you to a new understanding. We should always challenge our own perspective this way and the collectors, they bring in their own perspective as well, and don't talk about the heritage directors now, but just the community and and you have, like, the historians and and the fellow researchers and the stylists and and so on. It's never understanding. Something is never something you can do with your own brain only. It's networking, information and perspectives i'm'm curious about your experience.

Blake Rea: 1:32:32

What is the most memorable story that you have personally encountered that is tied to a Zenith watch?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:32:41

I want so badly to tell you this is actually on the wall. There we are in 46. Yeah, 1946. That's an excerpt from the Journal Suisse d'Horlogerie. I'm sure you know it. It's a very well-known journal. These are some of the newest examples.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:33:12

And there is this guy that's actually the former director of the Anthropological Museum in Neuchâtel that goes to Africa, in Niger and in Sahara, in Niger and in Sahara, is completely amidst Sahara, and he is on his studies. He goes to interview the chief of a very important Tueric group and they talk together and it seems that the chief asks him okay, so where are you from? And so on, france, and so on. And he says no, I'm from Switzerland. And then the guy takes a minute, thanks. And the other guy is like what is he going to tell me about it? That we are neutral? No, and then guy is like what is he going to tell me about it? No, and and. And then he's like watch his Senate. And the guy, the Jean Gabu there was this director he's like oh my God, this is a this is an acknowledgement of the, the expertise of my state.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:34:35

You know it's and we are so proud and so on. I mean on all the international watchmaking and uh, and then he comes back to switzerland with this. He comes to zenith, so at the very location I took to you from, and and he's, uh, he's telling the story and the, the product department promises him a watch that would be soundproof and that, uh, that would resist the high temperature differences, that you can live in the Sahara, and so they give him, they provide him with this special watch, and so on. He comes back there and the continuation of his study is welcomed from the brother of the guy he had talked to, who is now the new chief, because his brother just passed away, it seemed. And the guy greets him and thank him for the zenith watch and it's like it's a, it's actually a friend that that that sent me.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:35:44

You know we were talking about the importance of the network. Yeah, l Lorenzo Maia. He's from the Maia dynasty of Europa Star and he sent this to me like, did you know about the story? I mean, it's an incredible story. So, yeah, there's just one on the top of my head.

Blake Rea: 1:36:06

That needs to be like a Hollywood movie or movie or something you know like hollywood storytelling it's endearing.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:36:15

You know, in in the, in watches and wonders. This is actually thanks to this story that I put also a zenith advertisement in a language I mean lots of people wouldn't even be able to translate, which is actually Tigray. So we are talking from a beautiful and very old language sourced in Ethiopia, and you can only decipher one word, and that's zenith. And this is an advertisement from the 1920s. That's so cool.

Blake Rea: 1:36:57

So do you guys? You talked a lot about working together with other assuming historians and collectors and museums, and what is that process, like you know, for somebody in in your role?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:37:14

I mainly work with my colleagues, of course, and and and with the. I mean through the connection with the community that has a zenith watch, because we, as you know, we offer a service of identification, certification of watches. So this is the triggering element. Now it's on the site, in the many other caps I am enjoying having next to Zenith's work so teaching and working in museums and so on committees that you actually see things you wouldn't expect and hear things you wouldn't expect, and so on. Of course there is always the confidentiality elements, but that's on the new developments.

Blake Rea: 1:38:03

Sure.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:38:04

Never. There is no competition in things that were already developed. The ease we basically it's a small word, Watchmaking is a small word and heritage word is a small word within this word. So basically you cross paths on wherever you are doing outside of your job. Yeah, Amazing.

Blake Rea: 1:38:28

Curious, I mean we have taken up doing outside of your job. Yeah, amazing. Curious, I mean we have taken up so much of your time. Please tell us what is next for you and your heritage team.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:38:40

It's actually all about this heritage platform. We are looking really forward. We are working as we speak to centralize all the collections together and this means being able to dig into the first years also of the manufacture, where there are all the reports of direction and things like this Amazing sources again for the history of watchmaking and otherwise, let me and otherwise, let me see, let me see. I think it's about just a daily work of, uh, discovering new things you wouldn't even have expected to discover when you woke up in the morning. So are?

Blake Rea: 1:39:24

are we to get any surprises or maybe archival reveals, or maybe see some of your investigative work and the near collections to come?

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:39:39

I think we have something together coming up which is behind the scene of the work conducted by the customer service.

Blake Rea: 1:39:53

You're alluding to my project.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:39:56

Also, yeah, and this is, of course, something where we are going to go over what amazing job these guys are doing and the ethics of, you know, not changing components but really like working with the originality and so on. But to do so, we will have to go to have a little peek into what's the originality, how we the sources based on which we can say what was what, and so, yeah, this is you let the cat out of the bag.

Blake Rea: 1:40:36

So, for everybody that doesn't know, laurence and I laurence went through my entire vintage watch collection vintage zenith watch collection, of course and specifically chose a piece from my collection to restore. And she chose the defy spaceman and and that's going to get sent back to her and her team and and we're going to document the entire process of bringing my watch back to well, preserving its future glory. I guess it's because it's already glorious, but, you know, making sure that it gets taken care of and servicing it and and trying to bring it back to you know, uh, it's, it's, it's glory, I guess I don't know what the right word is it's.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:41:33

It's basically going into the process of every watch coming to the manufacturer and and its path and how it is dealt with, and so on. So, yeah, we're very excited about this because, as you know, we love having people at the manufacturer. Eva, who you mentioned, does an extremely good job with the hospitality department. She directs to welcome everyone that she can because it's a tight schedule and so on that she can because it's tight schedule, and and so on. But that's a chance to showcase it also to the ones that couldn't come to uh, to le loc and and at the heart of the manufacturer here and see how we do things. We are really very, very happy to share this.

Blake Rea: 1:42:30

Yeah, no, when I put together the manufacturer tour video, there wasn't, to my research, there wasn't really like manufacturer tour video at the time. There was one that I saw and it was more like a news outlet saying oh, here we are, it's in it. You know, it wasn't like a watch nerds perspective into the manufacturer tour and we did ours over a year ago, a year and a half ago, and then now teddy came and like did his and I'm like, okay, cool, like this is great, you know this. He he dived in a little deeper than I would have know because of time constraints, different perspectives that we were talking about.

Blake Rea: 1:43:11

Yeah, yeah, I find myself trying to consolidate as much information as possible. You know like I spent four hours, five hours with Ava maybe and you know I output a three-minute video. You know a three-minute manufacturer tour video, three and a half, four minutes, whatever and that, to me, is how I challenge myself, very similar to you every day and your role. But thank you again for spending so much time with us. This has been an amazing first for us. I am so glad that you came on.

Blake Rea: 1:43:48

I knew I had to invite you on when I met you, when you revealed our project, but I could just tell the passion, the enthusiasm for your career and just when you started talking about specifically my watch, you were so enthusiastic about it, so excited and and I just knew I had to invite you on and and so thank you for, for coming on and spending some time with us and giving you know my audience, you know, an insight into, into into our conversation, into your mind. You know your role like it. This is, this is truly special and I try and deliver as much watch nerd content as I can and thank you for helping me to deliver on yet another amazing episode.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:44:39

Thank you so much. I hope everyone had fun also, and it's been another to be live in Las Vegas from Las Vegas as well, so that's great. Thank you so much, Blake, and thank you everyone for watching this. We are looking forward to meet you sometime also.

Blake Rea: 1:45:04

Yeah, guys, if you haven't already, zenith does do manufacturer tours to the public. You can go on their website, you can register, get a taste of the history. This is an incredibly rich brand. My friends make fun of me because I'm so obsessed with Zenith, because they have nothing else to make fun of, right, but in my opinion, it's truly a unique brand. I love the story, I love the brand, I love the DNA, I love the storytelling. You guys truly get that part of the watch community that you guys really take us on a romantic journey. And just even being you talked about the attic just being there felt so special and I told Jessica, my friend Jessica, she's your West Coast rep. You know, like I dreamed to come one day to the attic and she helped me achieve that dream and Ava and all you guys have been so accommodating. So, yeah, I can't thank you guys enough and I can't wait for us to show our project, our second project, to the world.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:46:09

Here it's superb and if you can put a link towards the tourist office, you know where people can actually register and this is part of UNESCO. So everyone is welcome to just go through the tourist office and you will have the possibility to visit the manufacturer.

Blake Rea: 1:46:29

We're going to link everything through to the bottom. Make sure you guys check it out. I'm sure you guys already know about it, I don't need to say that, but make sure. If you're ever in Switzerland, this is something that you have to do, in my opinion. So again, lawrence, I want to thank you for spending just over I mean, geez, nearly two hours of us nerding out here, but thank you for spending so much time with us and I can't wait to talk to you here soon.

Laurence Bodenmann: 1:46:59

Thank you so much. Bye everyone, Ciao, ciao.