How Emerton Scott Builds Big Value Watches with Scott Lancaster

Rolex waitlists, microbrand value, and what “great design” actually looks like when you live with a watch every day. That’s where this conversation goes with Scott Lancaster, the founder of Emerton Scott, an independent brand that started years ago, detoured through branding and marketing work, and came roaring back with a clear mission: build watches that punch above their weight and celebrate the human spirit behind the grind.

We get practical about the stuff enthusiasts care about but brands rarely explain well: why seeing a watch in person beats spec sheets, how events like Wind Up can make or break a launch, and what changes a watch from “nice online” to “invisible on wrist” in the best way. Scott breaks down the unglamorous work too, from years of prototyping to supplier drama that forced him to fly out and handle packaging and shipping himself. We also talk details that quietly separate a serious everyday watch from a shiny toy, like finishing choices that age well and bracelet engineering that makes comfort the default.

Then we zoom out into the business side: the marketing funnel, why organic content builds trust, how paid ads can inflate prices, and why Kickstarter fees can wreck already-thin margins for microbrands. Finally, we dig into the Rolex ecosystem, how scarcity and AD behavior shape customer experience, and why more enthusiasts are saying “no thanks” even when they can afford the watch.

If you’re into independent watch brands, watch design, microbrand marketing, and the real economics behind “value,” you’ll want to hear this one. Subscribe, share it with a watch friend, and leave a review if the conversation hits home. What brand has earned your trust lately, and why?

Checkout Emerton Scott and Scott's Social Media:

https://emertonscott.com/

https://www.instagram.com/thescottlancaster/

Transcript

Welcome And Scott Lancaster

Blake Rea 0:01

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to another episode here of the Lonely Risk Podcast. I am your host, as always, Blake Ray. And today's guest is Scott Lancaster. Scott is the founder of the independent brand Imerton Scott, a brand that started on Kickstarter making jewelry and then moving into building watches. Since then, his entire mission has been to build watches that punch well above their weight class. And Scott is also known for something else calling out the hype, the wait lists, and calling out brands, all while trying to build something genuine in the middle of all of it. So stay tuned because we are going to talk about building a brand from nothing, the realities of running an independent watch brand, design philosophy, and why he is not shy about poking front at the Rolex wait list and the rest of the industry circus. Welcome to the show, Scott.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Man, that was an intro, my friend. That was an intro. What are you rocking actually on your wrist? I saw it just before, but I don't actually can recognize it.

Blake Rea 1:07

This is the Jung Hans Pi my pilot chronoscope.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Okay. Okay, okay.

Blake Rea 1:16

Yeah, I'm I'm a huge fan of Young Hans. So I'm sure you probably heard of them.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Yeah, I've saw them, I've saw them digging around, but I've never actually seen any of their watches in person, and I think that's uh that's like a big thing for watches, right? That's what I always kind of see on my channel. You can see a watch online and the specs could all look right, but then seeing it in person, man, completely different story. Completely different story.

Blake Rea 1:38

Yeah, this is one that like I never expected, and seeing it in in you know, in in pictures, and then seeing it in person. You know how it is, night and day. Like, you know, you're on your mission, you know, and in Geneva, we were just talking about this, but like, you know, trying to get your your watch in front of people, and that's I think what changes really everything, you know, at least here in the states, right? The rise of of independent brands that are all

Seeing Watches Beyond Specs

Blake Rea 2:05

about showcasing, you know, quality watches. Yeah, yeah. You you know you know the mojo for sure. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

The thing is the US though, you guys have like tons of watch shows all the time. You've got wind up, you've got like you've you've got so many watch shows that I've been kind of trying to get into, but it's a long way from Thailand, so it's like an 18-hour flight, right? So I need to kind of strategically choose which one I want to do. Um, I'm thinking about doing Wind Up New York, but um a few things need to get into place. I think those events are super valuable for like the US market because you get to see these little brands that are doing incredible things that you wouldn't normally be aware of because maybe they're not that good at marketing, maybe they're not that good at getting the word out, but they're just focused on making incredible pieces, which from my experience of talking with a lot of kind of micro brand founders, that's kind of their bread and butter making incredible watches. But the marketing aspect is kind of I think that's amazing for customers, though, because they're getting an amazing amount of watch for like not an incredible amount of money because these guys are undervaluing themselves so much because they feel like that's kind of do you know what I mean? So it's kind of like a yeah, lovely relationship. It's uh it's weird.

Blake Rea 3:16

The US is a value-driven market, so you know, people want to know what you're getting and what you're paying. And so, you know, like I was I've done a couple wind-ups, I've I've worked on both sides, I've been there as a journalist and media, and then I've also been there like helping my friends who run watch brands, like on their side of the counter. And it's it's definitely an interesting concept because usually day one, people are there. So here's the way it works, right? This is my philosophy. I don't know how, but this is what I would assume. I'm gonna give it to you.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Give me all the tips, give me all the tips for for me doing my first events. Give me all the tips that would be really helpful.

Blake Rea 3:50

People show up and and you know, they know which event they're going to, they go to the brand roster, they go to every single website of all the brands that maybe they've heard of, or maybe they've they've seen a little bit of stuff online, then they go in there, just bullet point watch brands to Target, right? So then day one shows up, right? You're like, fuck, man, is am I gonna buy a watch? You know, like when you're when you're on that side of the counter. Um they're doing their research, they're literally going through checking all their brands off to see, right? Okay, cool. Does this watch look as good on in person as it does online? And then value, right? You know, everybody's always like, Oh, yeah, can can I take this with me? You know, every that's the challenging part, logistics. I think that's a little harder on wind up because a lot of these brands that come from some of them come from overseas, some of them have stuff in the states, you know, bringing stock to the show. It's like logistics is probably the hardest part of that. And then, you know, obviously day day two comes around or day three, you know, people are making their purchases, you know, and and yeah, New York's a great one. San Francisco is epic. I've done New York, San Francisco, and Chicago, and then I think they're gearing up to do a couple other ones. But but yeah, I think definitely New York would be the one because you just get so much eyeballs in front of you. And yeah, yeah, the thing that I I dislike about Wind Up is like, you know, you're just fighting for people's attention, you know. Like this past wind up, San Francisco, brew had their own little coffee shop, right? So everybody was getting coffee hanging out with brew, and the other brands were just like, oh, okay. You know, I mean, you get it, right? Like you have to to figure out a way to steal people's attention, you know, at shows like that, because there's so many great brands, and you're standing right next to them, you know.

Wind Up Shows And Logistics

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Literally making notes as we have this conversation.

Blake Rea 5:50

Yeah. So figure out a way to be bold and figure out a way to stand out and you know, put your watches where your mouth is, you know. Figure out logistics on on how to sell on site if you can, or if if you can't, you know, everybody's always looking for you know a friendly coupon, you know, to take a watch home. So so yeah, yeah, that that's my my tips for success at Wind Up.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

Well, I'll send you your uh commission in the post when uh it all goes well in New York.

Blake Rea 6:19

Just just reinvest it right back to where where it's gonna go your family and the brand. That's all I care about.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

Awesome, man. Awesome, awesome. What do you want to talk about today, man? Because there's so many different things that we could chat about that we should have probably chatted about in Geneva, but maybe I was a little bit hungover. Yeah, let's uh let's rock and roll, my friend. Why do you want to dive into first?

Blake Rea 6:37

We gotta start at the ground. You know, obviously, you did a Kickstarter, right? And you were focused on jewelry. I mean, particularly, I saw a bunch of necklaces, stuff like that. What made you transition from necklaces to now like time pieces watches?

SPEAKER_01 6:55

So I'm super, I'm super happy that you asked this question because not a lot of people actually know that the brand's actually been around since 2015, like 2015, 2016. And we started off doing watches back then. But what basically happened is Blake, I was running the brand for a couple of years, and then people started seeing the brand do quite well, like not like stupidly well, like not as well as it is now, but it was doing okay, and okay enough for other people to start hiring me to help them with their brands. So what ended up happening is I kind of got pulled in two directions where Emmett and Scott, which a lot of you know independent watch brands do, they they lose money in the first few years. And I was getting pulled in this direction where basically people were paying me like more money than I ever thought my time was worth to help them with their companies because obviously I was making them a lot of money, but they already had the infrastructure, they already had their supply chain set up, they had everything done, so I was just the icing on top that was helping them market properly and and get the word out. That was kind of my bread and butter. So I basically ended up learning about branding and helping brands and helping with marketing for like 12 years basically, like over a decade. And then I mean I've always loved watches since I can remember. But after I think it was like just about when my son was just about to be born, I felt myself getting like pulled back, and I was like, join this, like I really I really want like a good everyday watch, but like and there's good watches out there, obviously, there's tons of great watches out there, but there's nothing that quite kind of scratches the itch for me. I think that's like something that a lot of founders have been through and have experienced, so they've gone and designed it themselves, and then through some way or another, other people have kind of resonated with that design and then ended up wanting to buy it. I I didn't even want to restart the company originally, I just I just designed the watch for fun while I was kind of taking some time away from doing agency work. Like you're an agency owner, you know how busy it gets with clients emailing you all the time. And I was taking some time away to kind of spend more time with my wife, who was pregnant, obviously with our little boy being born. And I thought, let's just spend this time just designing watches and take the pressure off me a little bit. And I shared it online, and then everyone was like, Oh, where can I buy it? Like, are you selling this? Like, is it what is it available? I was like, shit, man, like this is like a sign, like to get back into it, to get back into the game. And I feel like now, when I first started the brand when I was like, you know, in my mid-20s, I was very limited in regards to the ammo and the ammunition and the the stretch the strategy that I could implement because I didn't know much about business or branding, I would just love watches. Now I've kind of got a decade of of strategically like sitting down with brands and helping them navigate really competitive markets. And I thought, you know what it is? The watch industry, especially at a micro brand level, is I mean, at any level to be honest, but it's one of the most competitive industries in the world. So as a branding consultant who has been getting paid to help other brands, why don't I put my own everything in like on the line and say, okay, if I know my stuff, if I really know my stuff about branding and marketing, let's do it in the most comp in one of the most competitive markets in the world. Let's see if I really know my shit. Do you know what I mean? So that's it. That that that was kind of one of the most important things. And there was actually a a comment on Reddit, because I actually put a post out on Reddit. I love Reddit, but it is like the the swamp of honesty.

Blake Rea 10:36

Yeah, I know. I live in it. I live in it.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

Yeah. So it's I put a post out and I basically said, Should I basically liquidate all of my savings from like the few investments that I had? And should I put it all into starting this watch company again? And pretty much everyone said no. Then there was this one guy that said, I can't remember it word for word, but he basically said something like, You might lose all your money, but your son is going to see someone who followed their dreams, right? Like, like who actually said, you know, fuck it, I'm gonna do it. Yeah, and that's that's the thing that thought, Junior is you can always make money, right? You can always get a job, you can always restart the agency, you can always do that. But John is like when I'm rocking on my rocking chair when I'm like 75, 80, or whatever, I'm gonna be able to look back and say, do you know what it is? It wasn't guaranteed. In fact, there was only about a one or two percent chance that it was actually gonna be successful. Fuck it, let's do it. Let's just go, let's go, let's go 100%, let's don't half-ass it and let's really go for it and compete. Do you know what I mean? So that's so here we are, man. Here we are, like two two and a half years later, and man, it's nuts crazy.

Blake Rea 11:42

Yeah, I love that. That's such like a founder story if I've ever heard one. And obviously, I I think you know, but I live in Las Vegas, so like that all in mentality like lives here and like dies here, also. But yeah, and so I'm curious about the name, like Emerton Scott. Obviously, your name's Scott, but it sounds like it's like a century-old like freaking watch brand, you know. Like, what's the real name behind, you know, the real story behind the name?

SPEAKER_01 12:10

Okay, so listen, I would love to have some sort of kind of like preset, like marketing genius name story, whatever, but honestly, this is the honest truth, and I've shared this online because tons of people have asked me where does the name come from? So I'm British, right? So I wanted the name to sound British. The company name was actually something completely different in the very beginning. But when we actually tried to file a trademark, and the weird thing is with my branding agency, we've done lots of different things like website design, logo design, product, like everything basically. But one of the main kind of services that we offered was trademarking and name development, right? Because name development, it's really hard to find a great brand name, a great domain. And one of the things with Emmett and Scott, which not a lot of people think about when they think about a brand name, is trademarkability and searchability. So by having a slightly longer name, which is kind of unique and distinctive, it allows you to trademark it far more easily because there's not a lot of other names like it, basically. So that was one of the main reasons. And I I was literally on a photo shoot for the actual brand in London, which I'd literally spent pretty much all of my money at the time on to try and make happen. And I got a an email from the guy who was, he wasn't like my lawyer, because I didn't, I wasn't like important enough to have a lawyer back then. I'm still not important enough to have a lawyer now. But he basically messaged me, the guy who was filing the trademark for us, and he basically said the previous name had been kind of objected by this big Italian company. So I checked out this company and who they were, like, oh how big can they actually be? It turned out the small company was actually owned by this big conglomerate who was like a real estate agency that was basically turning over like 500 million a year. So, in simple terms, I shipped my pants and I basically said, Okay, we need to change this name post-haste, we need to do this now. So I was, I still remember the exact place I was. I was in a place called Egerton Crescent. It's this place in London, which, if you look at it, it's got this beautiful sort of like curved beige crescent, which the most beautiful houses you've ever seen, right? If you if you live there, you've done well. I thought Egerton sounds a little bit eggy and a little bit, uh it sounds like it stinks to be honest. So let's change Emmetton. Emmetton sounds good. My name's Scott, Emmett and Scott. Yeah, that that sounds good. I just emailed them back saying, listen, can we trademark Emmett and Scott? Is that unique? Is that distinctive enough? And that was it. That was the whole story of like the name. And one of the things as well, which I want to make really, really clear to anyone who's maybe starting to like thinking about starting a business. I've seen and worked with thousands of companies that have asked me to develop a brand name for them. And a lot of people think that a brand name is the do or die of their business. It isn't. It really isn't. Because there's two different types of brand names, right? There's names that already have some sort of associated meaning. So, for example, Blake, if I asked you to think of, and this is just kind of how our brain works, if I asked you to think of the word beach and asked you to think of three other words, you're gonna probably think of words like sand, like turtle, like sea, like palm tree, or whatever's kind of preset in your hippocampus, which is where our long-term memories are kind of held, before they get pulled forward to our prefrontal cortex, right? Which is kind of where we make decisions in our logical part of our brain, right? So those are the first types of names where they already have associations in place, but then the other types of names are just like abstract names, they don't mean anything, they're kind of like empty buckets, like Rolex back in the day. But now it's pre, it's kind of built up this association and this kind of perception of what the name means. So one just takes a long time to kind of become valuable, whereas the other one is a little bit more valuable in the beginning. But with abstract names, it's so much easier to trademark them, to protect them. When someone types in on Google, the name comes up straight away because there's nothing really like it. So that's kind of the yeah, the the decision-making process. So

Restarting The Brand From Scratch

SPEAKER_01 16:10

there's a lot to it, but people just like man on on Reddit, and I'm I'm sure you probably saw these posts. It's it's like, yeah, but you don't you don't understand like why, like, yeah, you don't understand why, but I get it, I understand.

Blake Rea 16:24

That's that's so funny, and it it it makes a lot of sense, you know, when you're thinking about it from you know, a branding perspective, you know, there's no other brand out there, right, with that name. You said you're for you said you're in Thailand, which is kind of wild, because you know, obviously, I think you're you're British, right? You're you're from the UK, and I think about as being a founder, like being on the fucking ground, you know what I mean? Like, and Bangkok is like, I think you're in Bangkok, but it's just way out there, right? So, like, how is being like, you know, Bangkok based, like, you know, versus being, you know, in the States or in the UK, where we're like these are like watch mechas, like these are watch mecca markets, you know. How do you feel like that shaped your brand?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

This is actually something which I think is a huge disadvantage in some ways, but also a huge advantage in some ways. So there's a really good book called The Luxury Strategy. It's by this uh this kind of famous professor who I don't know the luxury strategy by some guy who has like a Dutch name or something. I don't know. He basically says that for luxury brands, and I wouldn't class Emmett and Scott as a luxury brand just because our pricing is like so bloody competitive, but for most brands, they want to kind of have like a geographical DNA, if that makes sense. Like, for example, Baltic and Serica, like very much kind of ingrained in where they're from, right? Like Baltic, for example, as soon as you listen to Baltic, you know for a fine fact, you you kind of connect it to France straight away, right? It's it's just like one of those things, Studio Underdog, like Crystal Reward, British, right? Like you just get it. So that is one of the disadvantages in the sense that I can't really say that the watch brand is British, but then uh in another world, it kind of gives us the advantage of kind of not having that limitation, if that makes sense. Because when you kind of start putting limits on things and you start kind of having this connection to a certain geographical location, you kind of have to stay within a certain rule set, if that makes sense, and you have to kind of honor that geographical location. Me personally, so I'm not sure how much you've kind of looked into the website, but uh one of the main things that I really struggled to get down when I first started the brand, like way back when, is I didn't really understand what the brand's reason for existing was. Like, what is the thing that I believe in as a founder, which really can include everyone, include everybody, no matter whether you're from Jamaica or the UK or the US or Canada, like what can bring everyone together? And you'll see it on our Instagram, you'll see it on our website, everywhere. Every single timepiece that we make is about celebrating the human spirit. Because I honestly feel, and this is something which literally now, as I'm talking to you, I've got goosebumps and I can feel this energy just kind of coming up into my throat. I believe that humans are fucking awesome, like fucking awesome. Like there's probably times in your life, Blake, where you thought, how the fuck am I gonna get through this? How the fuck am I gonna get through this every day? And you build yourself and you get yourself to a level. And that the beautiful thing about that is every single person on the planet, no matter who the fuck you are, can can can resonate with that. And I feel that is a massive advantage because it allows me to connect with, and man, if you saw my inbox, the amount of emails that I have with customers, it isn't like, oh Scott, what's this spec? Blah blah blah. It's it's talking about experiences, it's talking about the a guy literally yesterday lost his job, so he couldn't buy the Evermont one. But since then, two years ago, he's built himself up and now he's just got a promotion in this new job, and now he's buying the Evermont 2 to celebrate. That sort of shit gets me like rocking, man. Like I went to the gym yesterday and I lifted more than I ever thought I ever fucking could. Like that sort of stuff is awesome to me. And that's the type of stuff I want to celebrate. If I'm gonna put my time and energy and spend the next 40 years building a company, I want to celebrate incredible people who are doing incredible things. And I always kind of joke, I know we'll get on to Rolex a little bit later. Rolex is kind of the brand that people kind of look to as kind of like when you win Wimbledon or when you win this or when you win that. Yeah, fuck that. When you win anything, when you've achieved anything, what do you think about? Do you think about the goal at the end or do you think about the grunt or the mud at the middle? That's the fucking shit. That's the stuff. And that's the stuff that's why I document everything, I show all the ups and downs. That's when I'm talking to people, I don't want to talk to them about how great sales are or how great business is. I want to talk about when you were at the start of the process, when you were first designing the watches, how much insecurity you had and how anxious you felt that people wouldn't like the watch. I want to learn about the grunt and the good stuff because that's human. That's what makes us so that that's what makes us the primary spaces on the planet, because we overcome shit. A line could rip both of us apart in seconds, but we communicate and we we're kind of strategically attuned to be victorious. So that's what I want to celebrate. I want to celebrate humans, the human spirit, and what actually makes us fucking awesome. And that gets me, man. You've got me pumped up already, and this isn't even like, yeah, it's not even like midday yet. So yeah, I need to calm down a little bit. I'm back. I'm back.

Blake Rea 21:48

Yeah, no, I mean they're they're taking the journey with you, right? You know, like I've always thought about this, and you know, my dad used to watch these stupid fucking reality shows, bro. Like, gonna put my dad on blast here for a second, but he was watching like the housewives and like all that random stupid shit. And you know, I asked him one day, I was like, Why do you why do you watch this fucking bullshit? You know? He's like, the characters are crazy, and the story is fucking crazier, you know, the storyline, the plot, the the way that they build tension, you know, and like turn each other like into freaking like assassins against each other, you know what I mean? And he's like, How can you you know how can you not appreciate that, you know? But yeah, no, I mean they're on the journey with you, right? And so I love that. But like let's let's wind back. Dude, I I I my interview style is so so random, but what was like the how long was the gap between when you said I want to do this and like shipping out your first like product, like your first unit?

SPEAKER_01 22:59

So we shipped out the first batch of 100 February, so literally early February. I don't I don't know if you see the Instagram post, but basically about I think it was like two weeks. I might be getting this wrong, Blake, but just excuse my timelines. Sure. Around a week actually, before we were supposed to ship, I basically got an email or text message on WhatsApp from the person who was supposed to be arranging everything, like in terms of logistics, in terms of packaging and putting everything together, so I could just kind of turn up, do the final quality checks, and then kind of say, Yeah, everything's good. They basically texted me saying, Listen, if you want things sent to customers before Chinese New Year, then you're gonna have to come and do it all yourself because we don't have time. We've got bigger customers to deal with. And I was like, okay, so literally within an hour, I I booked a flight for me, my wife, my little boy to I think we got to Guangzhou at like three in the morning or some shit. This is all documented on YouTube, by the way. I videoed the whole fucking thing, and that was kind of the first shipment that we did. And before that, it was kind of like about two years of actually developing the product and getting things right. And I've also got this all filmed as well. When I turned up in Hong Kong Watchfair, I'd made the prototype, and the person was trying to get me to commit to the full order. And I said, There's so many things that are not right. So the crown isn't right, this isn't right, that isn't right, the logo doesn't look right. And it was just like two years of just grinding, grinding, grinding, grinding for a thing that I never intended to sell in the first place. I was just making it for me. But then obviously people started buying it. And the crazy thing is, I never actually ended up doing the Kickstarter. So I did the first Kingstar Kickstarter for the jewelry, which was like I can't even remember the day, it was like maybe 2021 or something crazy like that. I can't even remember, it'll be up low, it'll be online somewhere, and that was only because I'd met this incredible jeweler, and he wanted to make some custom jewelry, and I had some designs which I already always wanted to kind of make. And then I didn't even end up doing the Kickstarter for the watches because they all sold out within like no time just by a stupid link to a my bank account, so we didn't even end up doing it. So yeah, what wild man, wild frickin' rad.

Blake Rea 25:26

Your first watch was like the ES1. Is that do I understand that correctly?

SPEAKER_01 25:29

The ES1. The yeah, so the the movement inside is essentially a Myota 9015, but we call the actual movement an ES 9015, just because obviously I don't want to say it's uh in an in an in-house caliber because it isn't right. I hate that to do that. But it is very much a different movement because we regulated the five positions, we we literally got out the watch aesthetically, take off the bridge, take off the rotor. We we literally customized a brand new rotor and bridge for the watch, so it looks completely different, and also it's tested again in-house by us and also by my own before it actually comes to us, so that's why we get kind of a higher level of performance. It's never going to compete with Cosk certification, it's not supposed to at that price point, but yeah, that's the movement's name. But the actual piece was called Evermont 38, which is 38 millimeters, well, 38.4 to be precise, and the Evermont Collection, which is basically celebrating perseverance, and each of the collections celebrates a different human trait or

The Emerton Scott Name

SPEAKER_01 26:35

human yeah experience, basically.

Blake Rea 26:37

How how do you feel like the brand is have evolved since like you know, your first prototype to now? You know, what what did you learn during this evolution?

SPEAKER_01 26:50

So many things, man. So many things. I think the biggest thing is packaging is probably the biggest thing because I actually asked a lot of customers before we did the Evermont one how much do you care about packaging? And we ended up doing, I've literally got two of them up there, just the simplest little white box with a travel pouch inside, and everyone was happy with them. No one like sort of said, you know, like this packaging's crap, but I also didn't factor in the fact that people subconsciously value a watch much more when it kind of comes in like a much better packaging. So since then, we've developed like a packaging which still makes sense logistically, so it doesn't cost the customer like a stupid amount of money. In fact, it actually costs us money, we've actually taken it on ourselves and just put all of the the rest of the money that the customer is basically paying into the watch. So improving the bracelet, improving the finishing, improving the movement, improving everything. But I think the packaging is the biggest kind of thing that we've changed. Everything else was kind of just like little incremental change, like for example, I mean, stupid stuff. Like I could go on forever, Blake, but adding a warning ring on the crown so that you know that it's screwed in properly, making sure that the teeth on the crown are a little bit better so that you can grip it better, so that it looks more aesthetically pleasing, so the light and the light play is kind of a little bit more enhanced and you know, improving the finishing in the bracelet, screws to push pins, like little tiny little incremental things like that, make the watch so much better overall. But if you held both watches side by side, you'd think that they were very similar, but it's just those tiny little details that when you live with them, it's very different, you know, in comparison. But yeah, it takes a little bit of time, I think, to really appreciate them.

Blake Rea 28:37

Yeah, I mean, it sounds like, and you've talked about that you're trying to build like the ultimate, go anywhere, do anything, watch, like, you know, and I know that that sounds so like abstract, but like what does that mean for you, like as a designer? And like, what do you have to give away to build that? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 29:00

What do you mean by giveaway? What's the things like like design trade-offs, right?

Blake Rea 29:04

Like, ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:07

So when you're working with okay, so we could get super deep on this, but let's let's keep things kind of specific. So one of the things which is really important in terms of designing the best everyday watch that's actually gonna last and look good for a long period of time is finishing. So, for example, uh you look at something like the Cartier Santos, which is one of the most uh purchased men's watches in the world for an everyday watch, right? And you see so many videos about that particular watch. I actually love the look of the Cartier Santos, I would love to buy one. The reality is that the scratches that that watch gets, it looks very, very worn after like if you're a little bit clumsy like me, that watch is gonna look pretty bad like in a in a very short time. So strategically polishing, and people don't really think about this, but strategically polishing an everyday watch, as opposed to something like the Setsuna, which is kind of like the Cartier Santos, and it's a little bit more dressy than the Evermont, but it's got a few more polished elements simply because it's a little bit more dressy. So having watches as kind of like tools and objects for like certain environments, right, and certain things, a formal event isn't likely to have your watch battered and kind of bashed and stuff. But an everyday watch, you need to strategically brush more surfaces and leave less areas kind of polished, mirror polished, because it's going to leave the watch looking far better for far longer. So little strategic decisions like that, and that's just one area, that's just the finishing and the polishing. There's so many other things that come into play that help to make a watch a really good long-term, I don't like to use the word investment, but a really long, a really good long-term decision for the person. And I feel like there's a lot of brands out there, especially at the micro brand level, making decisions like that and thinking like that, especially the most clever designers, like what's it, Jerome from Sereca. You know, he he knows his shit. I've had a conversation with him on camera and off camera, and we're kind of very much on the same page in regards to okay, we're we're thinking about things at a level where people don't really appreciate the watch until later, where they're kind of like, Johnny, it's been like two years and that watch still looks still looks good. And that's the reason why. Little tiny decisions like that, which kind of aren't immediately evident, but after a while, they really start to kind of bear fruit and be super valuable.

Blake Rea 31:39

It's so funny that you reference the Santos, like in this example, because I have a Santos, and dude, that thing was beat the fuck up, dude. Like the Cabochon fell off, like the the bezel, the brushed bezel, like was just gashed out. And I sent it back to Cartier to get service, mostly the Cabochon, and they were like, you know, they call it like a shine, right? Like, oh, we're gonna we gave your watch a shine. I'm like, okay, like okay, whatever. Like, but when it came back, it looked like a brand new watch. And I'm like, Cartier kind of fucked this up now because it looked, it looked badass, right? Like, you know, you would never expect like somebody to wear Cartier Santos like a fucking tool watch, like I did, right? And anyways, it sounds like and you referenced earlier like the bracelet, and you know, I know you had spent quite a bit of time like doing bracelet refinement. What was it that like made you just feel like you had to keep pushing like develop like bracelet development?

SPEAKER_01 32:49

So I think the bracelet, I mean you you're you're a watch guy, you know how some brands just get the bracelet very wrong, and the reason for that is bracelets are extremely difficult to get right, extremely difficult, they're very time consuming. So basically how a lot of bracelets are made, and not all bracelets, but the the vast majority, is there'll be a very long, thin kind of I would I wouldn't like to say a string, but a very long rod of metal, and then that'll be sliced up into smaller components, like for example, on this one. This is the Evermont one, right? So the smaller links and then the the main links, these are both in the same rod, and then they're just cut into some into different sizes, and then they'll be organized and drilled to ultimately come together like a bracelet, right? If you look at most bracelets out there, they're all made pretty much the same way. So, for example, what's different to this from this bracelet to the new bracelet? So I was thinking one day and I was looking at different bracelets, and obviously I try on watches all the time, and if you think about it, what is a bracelet? What is a bracelet? It's kind of this flexible to a certain point thing that attaches the watch to your wrist, right? Okay, so let's go a little bit deeper. It needs to be, it can go straight, it can also go curved, but the comfort of a bracelet is the thing that's going to kind of force you to, well, not force you, but encourage you to reach for that watch every day. We've we we've all been in that situation, right? Where we get up in the morning and we reach for a certain watch just because it's the most comfortable or it's the one that we we enjoy wearing the most, right? And obviously, I'm just kind of generalizing, but that's generally how it works for me. So I kind of broke down and really spent a lot of time on for the new tenant bracelet, which is without Evermond Gen 2. How could we make the bracelet more comfortable? So, for example, instead of just doing straight links like this, what if I what if I invested more money in making the bottom of the links slightly curved so that they essentially can be more circular, so they can hook the wrist better. And then what if we made the actual diameter of the link shorter and we had more of them? So we can essentially have more of a circle because the more of a circle that you can make with the bracelet, the more comfortable essentially it should be. So that's what we did with the new tenant bracelet, and then we did other little things, like, for example, a little bit of chamfering on the the inside links and also the outside links, and man, like just those tiny little decisions which no one will ever think about and never really appreciate unless they actually listen to this, then actually end up seeing the actual bracelet in person, those are the tiny little things that make the biggest difference, the biggest difference. And the fact of the matter is, a lot of big brands do things because it's the safe thing, it's the thing that is generally done. So they'll make bracelets that have kind of worked for them in the past, instead of doing like, for example, what's that brand that's did that kind of mesh bracelet where it's kind of like printed titanium or something?

Blake Rea 35:51

Do you know which one I'm oh I think I think it's uh isn't it Ming?

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah, it might be Ming, yeah. Might be Ming.

Blake Rea 35:57

Yeah, it's like a 3D printed titanium bracelet, and it just like you can spin it and twist it and all that. I think it's yeah, I think it's Ming.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

I love that shit because it kind of like takes what we think about how things should be done, and then does a complete 180 on it, but then still kind of gives a tip of the hat to how things were done. And the thing about Emmett and Scott is I don't want the brand to be a brand where you're like, wow, those guys are fucking crazy. Like, look what those guys are doing. They're doing like like like Studio Underdog, for example. I actually spoke to Richard and had like an interview with him, it's on my YouTube channel, and I said to him, Listen, I would probably never buy one of your watches because I am a boring asshole. Like, I do not I don't like have fun with watches basically. Like I have fun, but in like a really boring conservative way, where I can like appreciate really simplistic design, like Ceruk is my cup of tea, where it's like really minimal, kind of almost like Nordic to a certain sense. I know they're not from that part of the world, but they're kind of like really simplistic. I like that sort of stuff. If you ask me to wear a watch with like a pizza on the dial, I'm probably not gonna wear it for very long, right? I'm not gonna wear it every day. But the fact of the matter is, and just to kind of give a little bit of respect to Studio Underdog, Richard is verdictly integrating his supply chain. So he like the guy knows what he's fucking doing, right? He's not stupid, he he's a very smart man, and also the quality of the watches, if you like that sort of thing, is as good as anything else I've fucking seen. So I wouldn't wear the watch personally from a design perspective, but I'm a boring asshole. The watches from a quality standpoint, objectively, are brilliant because I understand manufacturing to a certain degree, right? So that's kind of that's kind of the the place. I can't even remember your question, to be honest, but that's kind of where we want to be. We want to do watches that are kind of timeless, but also we want to make sure that we're doing the simple things right, and that's not gonna create tidal waves, but when a customer gets a watch, they're gonna be like, Joan it is like I really I can really see all the little details that have been done, and I appreciate it. And I think Crystal Award do that extremely well as well, like in in certain with certain watches that I've received from them and check them out. The what was it, the 12 with the white dial, the little indices, how the indices have two different types of finishing. They've got brush polish and they've also got like a mirror polish on the side of the indices. Those little things don't blow you away, but they kind of quietly whisper with confidence over time. That's the type of watches that I want to make. I want to wear those types of watches, and I want to I want to make those types of watches as well.

Blake Rea 38:27

It's so funny that you say that. So, like one of my friends, shout out to David, he's probably gonna be listening to this. But David sells watches, and I've never heard anybody say this before. But you go into a watch store and you're trying on a new watch, and you're like, Yeah, man, I can get down with this. David is like, stop looking at the fucking watch and put your hands in your pocket, right? Walk around, do a lap around the store with the watch on, for you know, forget that you're freaking wearing it, right? Because you're not gonna be sitting there like, oh yeah, you know, like you get to experience what it's like to wear that watch. And in my opinion, the best watches are invisible, you know? Like they feel like they feel like they're a part of you, like they they become you, right? Like, and I've never heard anybody say that or even seen that happen, you know, and he's freaking good at his job, but like, you know, you have to live with these things and you have to wear these things, and these things are making contact with your skin 12, 14, 16 hours a day, however long you stay up and decide to work, and you're freaking mowing the yard or freaking traveling or whatever. Like, so the best watches, and you bring up Sereika a bunch of times, and I freaking love Jerome, and Jerome is the best at what he does, they're freaking invisible, you know.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Do you know what I love about do you know what I love about Serica so much, right?

Building Meaning Without Geography

SPEAKER_01 39:55

Is the fact that like every brand kind of has their own thing, right? And I think Sereca, even if you look at that website, I feel like Jerome is just like taking a moment in time and celebrating it through the watches that he designs. I'm not sure if it's like the 1970s or the 19, like what whatever it is, the 1970s, 1980s, or whatever, whatever period of time he's celebrating. 60s, he's just 60s, right? So he's just celebrating that, and I'm just thinking that that's just awesome, like just absolutely awesome. And the thing about their watches is it's like it's so distinctive, like there's nobody that does that type of watch quite like him. The bracelets are something which I think I could get used to because they're so kind of fiddly until he actually showed me how to do it. I really struggle to kind of connect it. But once you do it, and once he showed me, I was like, Oh, okay, that that that's easy. But man, like those more of those brands are gonna come up. And if you look at something like Cerrog, I think the the Serag he uses the the M1, the Solrod M1 in Soprod time pieces, something, yeah, something like that. I think man, like you're looking at that, and SolPrad have some you know some decent, you know, decent regulations, some decent specs. It's not a joke of a movement, right? And then you look at something else, which is you know, two grand, three grand more, and you're like, wait a second, like this is this is crazy. Like, how is there such a big difference? And that's that's what I think is going to be. I mean, we can get into Rolex and stuff a little bit later on. I'm sure that'll uh you know get a few get a few comments on the board. But yeah, that's um I've literally just broken down a video which is coming up on YouTube later, breaking down how much a submariner actually probably costs to make based on my you know couple of years' experience of manufacturing watches and kind of understanding how much things cost. I just think, man, like I'm so excited for micro brands and independent companies because it's getting easier and easier to get the word out there, and people are becoming wise to, I mean, especially the US market and the UK market. You guys know your shit. Like, really know your shit. Canada as well. We've got customers in Japan, Singapore, like all over the world. People like you, people like you know, all these other YouTubers are really making it super easy to understand watches and really digging deep to understanding specs, what's worth the money, what's not worth the money, people are coming to more and more events, and it's just the most exciting time to to be around watches, in my opinion.

Blake Rea 42:27

Yeah. I I you know, I can't agree more, right? I mean, watches are these weird little objects, and like the weirdest thing, and I'm I don't know if I've ever said this like out loud, but I think about this all the time. My favorite movie ever growing up is Back to the Future, right? And that movie, like time is the most important element of that film, right? Like, you know, like he goes forward and goes backwards, and then he goes to an alternate reality, right, of the timeline that he was on, right? Or he goes back to like, you know, to make sure that his his his his parents get married, right? Like, and so weirdly enough, and maybe I'm stupid or whatever, but I look at watches as like time capsules and like time machines, right? Like I I can look at my watch a minute from now, or two minutes, or ten minutes, or twelve hours, and it will be right, hopefully. Or I can look back at the moments that I wore this watch and said, Fuck man, I remember I was stuck in the airport and I just wanted to punch somebody in the face, and this is the watch that would have been there for that.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Not that I'm an angry guy, but you know, you get kinda scary right now, like to be honest.

Blake Rea 43:57

I'm I'm a gentle dude, but You know, the the internal thoughts, right? Of just wanting to like be like, look, you're the worst type of person ever. Like, you suck some if I'm not gonna punch you in the face, somebody should.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

Right? That's actually that's actually one of my tests, one of my internal tests for like a really good watch bracer for a guy. If you feel like you could punch someone in the face with that watch and they would just evaporate on impact, that's one of my tests. So, for example, the watches that have done that for me is the new master control from JLC, the Rashon Constantine and Rose Gold and Green Dial, um, like uh the overseas, and then the Presidential from Rolex with the Green Dial. Those are the three watches that man, if I if I if I give you a little jab, you're gonna you're going down, buddy.

Blake Rea 44:42

I for me it's the Jubilee, like that jubilee, right? The Jubilee something. No, no, just I just wear like I wear a date just like a Wimbledon pretty regularly. I mean, that's that's my Rolex of choice. Like if I had to choose a weapon of choice. The Rolex, Date Just, Wimbledon dial, fluted bezel, Jubilee. And then I also am a huge fan of the IWC like Mark 20 bracelets, like the pilot's bracelets that have the little button here that you just press and you're just like and and Doxa, you know, like I wear a lot of Doxa. It's probably the brand that like holds my heart and in high regards, or or even Young Hans, you know, like these are like they have this little like titanium mesh bracelet that like I put it on and I just forget that I'm wearing a watch. And um Doxa.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

What is it about Doxa that kind of has you so invested?

Blake Rea 45:41

I think I think the fact that first of all, like they were there, you know, like everybody does dials, like you know, like you you see people like romanticizing over dials, right? Like whether it's Grand Seiko or whoever, right? But you know, Doxa had a functional reason to make a watch orange, right? And so like everybody else is making dials just to make dial colors, right? And Doxa actually had a utility reason to make an orange watch, gotcha, right? And and they've they've spun it off into different variations now, and they're having fun with it or whatever. But the fact that it's a watch that that really has such a high, I mean, esteemed heritage in the diving world. I like how they have fun with materials, and like I said, the utility aspect of actually having a quirky ass watch, and and just the practical utility, like the the decompression bezel, not that I would ever fucking use it, but and just the way it wears, man. You know, the case shape, like yeah, it's just I don't know. It just it just hits hits all the right buttons, you know.

SPEAKER_01 46:51

Yeah, the th the thing is as well, I think for everyone's wrists is different. Like, for example, you can have two people who have seven and a half inch wrists, same as me, but different watches just wear differently. Like people have different body shapes, like some people like bigger watches, some people like smaller watches. I think you've just kind of found a brand which just gets your just gets your vibe, like it just fits you, it just feels right. And I think that's the thing which when you find it, you just when you find a brand that just fits you and just feels so good. I think that's what actually surprised me a lot about the people who bought the first Evermond. A lot of people have bought the Evermond too, and then a lot of people have again bought the Setsuna, the Masora, and the new Ashoro Diver. So like people are like buying the whole range because they kind of get the fit and they understand that the fit is going to fit them. And I feel like that's super valuable. Like finding a few brands like that which you can just stick to and trust, I think that's uh a big key, man, as a watch collector, and saves you a lot of hassle as well.

Blake Rea 47:53

Yeah, and something that like I care a lot about is I mean, it's just wearability, right? Like, you know, like I like I going back to the IWC, like all the bracelets that I pretty much have mentioned are either comfortable or they prioritize comfort, right? You know, you let you alluded to it earlier, like with when you're

Prototyping Grind And First Shipping

Blake Rea 48:10

talking about like even cutting in on the inside of the bracelet, right? Because it's less likely to pinch hair, catch hair, whatever, right? But just having a button here and just be like, you know, and you can size your watch on the fly. Like I can literally micro adjust my watch just by doing this. Like, you know, like on the Doxa, there's no freaking button. You have you have buttons here that you press and it opens up. So, like, let's just say I'm like I'm swelling, right? I live in Vegas. You press this, boom, jumps right to your wrist size, right? Then I'm like, okay, cool. I'm in my air conditioned house. Click, click, click, two seconds.

SPEAKER_01 48:51

Like it's Chris, you don't have to show me that you're gonna have to show me that when you actually because I've I've I've kind of seen it, I've seen it around, but I've never actually tried it. So I might have to nick your watch for about five minutes just to see how that feels.

Blake Rea 49:02

Yeah, yeah. When we're done recording, I'll go grab it and I'll show you. It's it's literally quite quite a simple design. I've even seen it on other watch brands, but you know, watch brands that really prioritize wearability and comfort, like and utility, like, you know, to me, like grand seiko, like like this is a case in point in Grant and not to use Grand Seiko as a as a as a springboard, but like I I love Grand Seiko, right? Like, I think every watch collector has a soft spot for Grand Seiko. And I have a Grand Seiko, but I don't wear it because it's not wearable personally.

SPEAKER_01 49:38

What's not wearable about it? Is it the bracelet? Is it the proportions? What is it?

Blake Rea 49:42

The bracelet, the bracelet, the the fact that it's it's just like it's such a beautiful watch, you know. Like, I know that sounds so weird to say, but the more beautiful a watch is the less likely I am to wear it, personally, right? And that sounds super weird, but like, even my friend, my friend, one of my buddies, like, you know, I used to sell watches and I would help him, you know, find watches every now and again, and he asked me to source him uh Vashron 56, and that thing came in, and he, you know, he was like, just wear it for a month and ship it to me later. And I was like, okay. So I was wearing a Vashron 56 for I don't know, three and a half weeks, two weeks. And then after the two weeks, I just like was like, would I ever own this? No, I won't. I won't. It's as beautiful as it is as a watch, it's just not me, you know. And there's another brand that really takes kindly to you know, to that really like melts my heart, and I think they've kind of mastered the the elegance and wearability while still being practical and having utility and and being beautiful in it, and that is Zenith, you know, like I'm a huge Zenith fan. You know, I I've really fell in love with their their Defy collection because for me it was like, well, this is actually proven, but it was the first ever like rugged utility watch, really. Like, you know, in a weird way, they wanted to make like a G Shock before G Shock existed in the 60s, you know, it's wild. So like they had the forethought to protect the movement with essentially like a big rubber like shock system, you know. And they were they were so like confident in the shock system that they threw the watches off the roof of their manufacturer during a press event, and then the they were like, go down and look and see if these watches are still working, and they were. So that's freaking cool. If you could, I guess probably start over, right? Not that you have to, but now knowing what you've learned during this journey, like would you take the same path or would you what would you do differently?

SPEAKER_01 52:15

I'm not sure if I would do anything differently. I was actually thinking about this about an hour ago because I was thinking, okay, maybe what we're gonna like talk about. And one thing that I think I would definitely do on top of Emmett and Scott is because I wouldn't really change anything about our journey and it's because everything's kind of still very much happening, right? I would love to take a brand. I think it was one of your interviews that I was listening to. I would love to take a brand that has been like bankrupt or like has gone into the ground.

Blake Rea 52:51

I asked that question to somebody, I can't think of who it was.

SPEAKER_01 52:54

Yeah, it was one of your recent interviews, I think. I think it was the one that you posted yesterday or something. I was just listening just to kind of see how about the vibe of the interview was.

Blake Rea 53:00

Oh, yeah, that was Icopod Christian.

SPEAKER_01 53:04

Yeah, Ikepod, yeah. That's the one. That's the one. I would love to take a brand that's like failed or whatever, and take all of that history, all of that design, and then bring it back to life and say, Do you know what it is? This like the thing that gets me like super riled up is like any sort of competition. So, like if someone says you can't do something, my the logical part of my brain is yeah, maybe that won't work. But then in the back, like my lizard brain is like, watch this. Let's let's let's go, let's go, like, let's let's try it. Because this is gonna be, this might not work, but man, it's gonna be one hell of a fucking story if it does. So that's kind of the thing that really gets me riled up. And already having some of that kind of baked in day and air and history of a brand that maybe like went out of business in like the 1800s or something, or like like the 1900s, like whatever, it would absolutely like that that is a challenge that would get me out of bed and get me absolutely stoked to to get on my desk every single day. Not that Emmonton Scott isn't keeping me busy enough, but that would be something which if I could make it work, or uh that opportunity came up, man, I would, I would, I would love that.

Blake Rea 54:12

I know that's such his story is very interesting because he had the brand DNA like here on a silver platter and it's been tried, tested, it works. He has he's had to had to figure out messaging, right? Like, you know, it's it's a messaging war, you know. You you said that. What do you feel like? And this is going to be tapping into like your marketing brain, like, what do you feel like and a lot of actual founders? So I this is to help people. There's a lot of industry people that listen to this this show, and you know, a lot of designers, a lot of watch brands. It's wild that you know are pretty much everybody for the most part in the industry listens to the show in a weird way, you know, independence, right? But what is the biggest branding mistake that you see like other watch brands, indies, micros, whatever, like making?

SPEAKER_01 55:06

Okay. So how deep do you want to get into this in terms of like marketing? Because I like I try to help as many micro brands as possible, and I say help, it's not like I'm like some sort of messiah, but I just try to like give them as much exposure as possible because I've got a little YouTube channel, right? So, man, in terms of the biggest mistake, I don't think they're doing mistakes, I just think a lot of micro brand and independent companies are founded by and driven by people who love watches and don't necessarily understand marketing as well as they potentially could. So, what do I think they could do better? Is that kind of a better way to frame it, do you think?

Blake Rea 55:46

Yeah, I think that's the the soft, gentle baby approach to framing.

SPEAKER_01 55:52

This is this is what I would do if I wanted to market a micro brand and do it as effectively as possible. I don't give advice anymore to like in like I don't do consultancy anymore because I feel like I've had too many experiences where I've actually taught people how to market something effectively and efficiently, and then they just do whatever they want. So I've just kind of completely stopped doing it. So that's this is this is what I would do for anyone who gives a shit, right? So let's let's just start there.

Blake Rea 56:22

They're listening, so they they do care right now.

SPEAKER_01 56:26

There are three stages to marketing awareness, consideration, sale, and then there's another stage as well, which is essentially after-sale experience, right? So, what you do afterwards to maintain that customer. Getting the customer originally is the hardest part

Small Upgrades That Matter

SPEAKER_01 56:40

because I don't trust you, I don't know who you are, I don't know if I order this watch for 600 quid, is it going to actually arrive the way that I expect it to, right? So awareness is the hardest part. So, how can you get awareness? So you can either do paid or you can do unpaid, organic, right? I personally have chosen to take the slow route of doing unpaid marketing. So I do not do adverts under any circumstances, at least at this point, and I don't see it happening in the near future. The reason for that is when you are paying and doing paid advertising, you're either doing some sort of sponsorship. I suppose you could class events as paid as well, but it's it's also kind of like a way for customers to see the watch, so it's kind of a weird one. But let's just focus on like social media paid advertising, for example. If you're paying to get someone to your website to sell them a watch, you're gonna be paying on average anywhere between 25 to 30% of the product's value to get them to buy it. Okay, so if you're selling a $1,000 watch on average, it's gonna cost you about roughly about $150 to $300 to actually get them to actually purchase that particular timepiece. To get enough people to the website for math to do its job and for them to add and for one of those people to actually purchase, right? If your advertising is good, the better your advertising is, the stronger your brand is, the less it's gonna cost to acquire that customer. Pretty simple. Organic is a lot slower, but it's also free. So I don't pay a single penny for advertising. I pay with my time. For example, yesterday I edited five videos to go on YouTube over the next couple of weeks because I'm gonna be busy as shit doing all the packaging and stuff and getting all the products ready. But what that does is that it's a much slower burn, but it allows you to develop a more intimate relationship with your customers. It's not a transaction as much, it's more, oh, I saw you on YouTube and you gave me a lot of value, so I wanted to support you, or I really understand the value behind your watch now, and it creates a more intimate relationship with the customer where you learn a little bit more about them, they know more about you. So that's the first step, awareness. You can do whichever way you want. And actually, I tested this with a secret Kickstarter. I did a Kickstarter about three weeks ago, right? Nobody knew about it because I didn't let anyone know on purpose. The reason I did it is obviously two years ago when I first wanted to launch the watch, I didn't end up launching the Kickstarter, but I had 400 people who essentially wanted to buy the watch or wanted to get involved in it. But I didn't launch the Kickstarter, so I launched it secretly, not telling a single soul, only for those 400 people. But what I did is I linked it to my website so that basically they could either buy it through Kickstarter, which you know a few people did, but then they actually mostly cancelled and bought it through the website because it was 7% cheaper. Because Kickstarter takes between 7 to 10%, which I couldn't care less because it's just cheaper for them, so it's a better deal for them. But it just shows that Kickstarter itself is kind of just a melting pot for people to kind of get engaged on a project. But if you actually have evidence that you can kind of you know deliver on your promises, people don't really care if they go through Kickstarter or they go elsewhere. So I think Kickstarters, to be honest, are a little bit of a waste of time, to be honest, if you can build trust in another way. And then it comes down to consideration. I know you were around, I know who you are and what you offer. Now I can consider it. Am I going to make a purchase or not? And that I think is something which again comes down to how much runway do you have? And by runway, I basically mean how much time can you hold your breath from someone becoming aware of you to actually purchasing your watch. So that means keeping expenses super low, not trying to rush things, which is essentially what I think a lot of paid advertising is. It's how can I make as many sales as possible, then the least amount of time as possible. I think giving yourself as much runways is pretty much a superpower in that particular area of marketing because it allows you and your customers to really take time to just think, okay, is this the right purchasing decision for me? And I see people on that on our email list sign up seven months ago, and then all of a sudden they make a purchase just before the delivery drop because they've considered it. And I actually encourage this, take time, take like two months and think, okay, is this watch actually for me? Because I would rather someone really make an educated purchasing decision and really consider it so that when they finally get the watch, they're like, okay, I really thought about this and I really like what I've bought, as opposed to receiving it and thinking, oh shit, like I wish I actually went didn't go ahead with this. I'd rather them really enjoy it. So I'm not sure if you want to kind of dig into anything deeper, but that's kind of the the basics. I would suggest make organic content and document the journey and then just make it really easy for the right customers to understand if you're right for them. Pretty simple, but awareness is the first thing. That's that's what I think a lot of people are lacking because they're not investing in organic content and really telling the story and understanding how algorithms work, which once you do that, you can make content about anything, and you can get reach in front of the right people, and that's like it's free and it's incredible.

Blake Rea 1:02:06

Yeah, I do I do want to say so Kickstarter takes that like it's it's a pipeline, right? A marketing pipeline, sales pipeline, whatever you call it, and flips it. They flip it upside down because I think the fact that people having the ability to influence products that change their lives or make their lives more convenient or cooler or whatever, that is the experience that Kickstarter's selling, right? Like, imagine this. Like, I don't know you, like, I see you have some little thing going on on Kickstarter. It's cool, I could use it, right? But the fact that I get to share in this journey, right, influence your product to be better or you know, more utility or whatever, participate in that development, right? And then be rewarded with the development that you helped curate.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

And also, as humans, from an evolutionary standpoint, and this is a Seth Gordon quote, I don't want to butcher it because I respect him a lot, but people like us do things like this. People like since the start of time, we've communicated and been part of tribes, right? We like to be part of something. And if you see a Kickstarter which has a lot of people kind of already commenting, already backed, blah, blah, blah, then you want to kind of be part of it a little bit more. It also serves as social proof because it's super risky

Everyday Watch Design Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

to back something where you're the only backer and you're just kind of standing there in like an empty room, just like looking around, just like, hmm, okay.

Blake Rea 1:03:56

I think you get your money back if you don't meet the goals, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:59

Yeah, that's true. It's true, it's true. But yeah, if you've got like uh something which is like you know, got 60,000 people who've already backed it, it's a completely different story. But the other side of that is Kickstart for like is it worth it for the brand, especially a smaller brand, which probably with probably you know more moderate and more humble profit margins to work with, is it worth paying eight to ten percent for that luxury? For me personally, I don't think so. And also as well, this this is kind of the tricky place that a lot of independent brands are at because they they don't have the budget to like, for example, again, if you're taking like a $1,000 watch, right? And you're trying to sell it on Kickstarter, I'm just using a thousand dollars brick because it's like the easiest number to use, right? Yeah, usually they're a lot a lot a lot a lot smaller than that. But if you take a thousand dollar watch, you've got the 10% or 7 to 10%, let's say 10%, just to keep it really simple. So that's what $900, right? And then from that $900, you also have to pay to get people to the Kickstarter page through advertising. Because yes, Kickstarter will get you a couple of people who back the project, but it's not going to be that many. It's not gonna be that many on average. And we looked at all the the stats and stuff. I say we, I don't know why I said that, it's just basically me just sitting on my desk. Probably around five to ten percent of your followers who are actually following the project. So I had 400. I think I had like four people from those actually purchased the watch through the actual Kickstarter. I didn't do any advertising, I didn't let anyone know on social media on purpose. And then most of them just went and bought the watch through the website anyway. So they just canceled and bought the watch anyway after I spoke to them. So from that 10%, that's already gone. You've got $900. Then you've got to pay around 25 to 30% to actually get people to the Kickstarter, which then takes you to what, like about 700 quid if you're lucky. And then after that, you've got the actual manufacturing cost of the watch, the logistics. The customs and tariffs, you're probably left with around what 300, 200 quid, like for the watch overall, dollars even, $300. That pro that margin is not enough. So something has to change. You have to take something out of that equation. For me personally, it was taking it out of the Kickstarter fee, which I just took out straight away. So that's 10%, which I'm keeping myself that I can reinvest into the watch and the experience. And then the marketing, I paid zero in advertising, which is why when people are getting in the Evermont, and this sounds like the worst marketing plug or the most, you know, obvious marketing plug of all time, the price that usually people have to pay because they need to advertise the watch, I don't have to pay that. So that means I can either charge the same amount for a watch, which the watch for the Evermont, and this is you've got Teddy Baldasar on my Instagram literally saying this is a thousand dollar watch. He says that from his own words. And every single other YouTuber that I spoke to, every single other person that I've posted, all say the same thing. This is like $1,000 or more, right? It isn't. But the reason that they think that is because the advertising that isn't there. That's taken away. So I can reduce the price a little bit and I can also reinvest more in the watch. So you're getting more much more watch for a cheaper price. And pretty much all watches would be around that price if they didn't have to pay that 25 to 30 percent. And then with luxury brands, so you're wondering, okay, why are luxury brands more expensive, much more expensive? If you're taking a $10,000 watch, I've literally just done this with a Rolex Submariner, 35 to 40%, let's say 30, for example, is going to the boutique. So before you even put the watch on, that Rolex Submariner, that is 10 grand, for example, you're paying you're paying three grand straight at the boutique just for them opening the door and making you wait three years. Do you know what I mean? So, and then there's more to it. There's the fact that the Rolex have a very vertical supply chain, they own most of their supply chain. So, for example, they don't have to pay Mr. Case, and Mr. Case make a profit on them, they make it themselves, so they're saving that. So, how much does it cost to actually make a Rolex submariner? My guess is probably between two to $2,600 roughly overall. And I break that down in a video which is coming soon on my channel. And you know, it's it's scary to think of how much what you're getting for your actual money. So, yeah, man, people are gonna fucking hate me for that, but that's it, man. Like, that's why I think brands are gonna rock.

Blake Rea 1:08:37

It's true, though. It's true. Like, you know, people, you know, it's like you know, calling your child ugly, right? Like, even if your child is ugly, I mean you you you have a child, I don't, but this is the analogy, right? Like, you're never gonna call your child ugly because that's your child.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:56

And sometimes when he cries, when he cries, I mean sometimes he can be a little bit ugly when he cries, I guess, but yeah, it just depends on what uh what my mood's like on that day.

Blake Rea 1:09:03

But you're but you're you're people know people know that it's true, right? Like, you know, a Rolex Submariner used to cost you know 700 bucks, you know, 600 bucks, and obviously like factoring in inflation, all that, yada yada yada, right? Like, yeah, it's it's wild. But this is the perfect segue to your Rolex content. That you that's actually how I found you, right? You're essentially calling out the obvious, the Rolex wait list, you know, your take on it, you know, the the customer journey. Like, how did you like like what was what was your thought process about even like touching this subject, you know?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:51

Man, so it literally like I would love this to be some sort of very well-engineered strategic marketing play. The reality is, mate, I literally just went into Rolex completely kind of mindless about what the process was like, and it just uh confused me. It was about two years ago, two and a half years ago, and I was wanting to get a watch to celebrate becoming a dad, which I think a lot of people do, and uh I was just confused by why they were trying to sell me other watches, which I didn't want, to try and get me the green dial dat just, which I did want, and it just fucked with my brain a little bit.

Bracelet Comfort Engineering

SPEAKER_01 1:10:40

And I was like, wait a second, this is how this business works, and then I realized this is how Patek works, and to a certain degree, AP works this way as well. Although I haven't really spent that much time with AP, and I thought it was very bizarre. I was like, okay, this is a whole new world, and I actually made that funny story. I actually made that, it's actually not that funny to be honest, but it's just kind of strange. I actually made that particular first short just for fun. I thought, do you know what it is? This is actually quite random. So I put up a little green screen and I made the short and it blew the fuck up everywhere on TikTok, on Instagram. I got like tennis players and shit, like following me and stuff who are obviously in the watches and that who've obviously had the same experience. I've got football players from like Monaco saying, if you really want a Rolex, I can get you hooked up with my with my ED because he gets everything that he wants. And I've just had like all these people like kind of understand the situation, and it was all just for a little bit of fun. And now I haven't even got time to make any more, which I wish I did, but yeah, it's just a happy accident, I guess, of just throwing enough stuff at the wall and just you know, that just stuck and then eventually blew up a little bit.

Blake Rea 1:11:58

It's it's so accurate and just is so that's what stuck to me. Like, because I've been there, you know, I've gotten I think I've gotten like five or six Rolexes from my AD, and you know, something that I've talked about, and I was actually just talking on Reddit, like when I when I was on the way home, I I just saw a film, and then I can't came home and I'm recording this with you. But some guy, like in you know, Zenith is you know the brand I just referenced earlier. He was in the Zenith like subreddit, and he posted a picture of like a defies white ceramic or something, and I was like, Grail, and and he replied, Yeah, I'm gonna wear this way more than my Rolexes. And then I was laughing at that because I mean I I have parted ways with some of my Rolexes, and uh like I I sold one of my Rolexes, and I'm only saying this now because I don't give a fuck about getting another one, and I got two Zeniths or three Zeniths or something. I put nine, I kept nine grand in my pocket, you know, and in anyways, it it's it's weird, but what actually like broke the camel's back for me is like I have a watch club, right? I I host 20 events a year in Vegas, you know, people come to my events, people hang out with me, people look at me as as a leader, as a mentor, or whatever, whatever you want to call me. I don't know why, but you know, I'm the organizer, right? And I was wearing my Rolexes to my meetings, and then people would be like, you know, everybody when you go to a watch club meetup, first question what are you wearing today? Why are you wearing it? Right. I'm like, oh, I'm just just wearing my my day dress or just wearing my submariner or whatever. And something that really started to break my heart, or you know, especially when you spend that much money on a watch, nobody ever asked to see it. Right? Like I think everybody in the watch community, collector or whatever, for the most part, you know, has probably like touched or had an experience with a real Olex or maybe worn one or tried one on or whatever. The fact that that watch was no longer conversational to me just destroyed it, you know, destroyed it, destroyed the the the desire to even own that because for me, like watches are for me, right? But they're also to me like as a community guy, like I'm all about the community, and I I want my watch to communicate to somebody who I may not know that I'm a real watch collector, right? And you you can own you can own a Rolex and be a real watch collector, right? But what separates me from a finance bro on Wall Street or you know, a mortgage lender or whatever, right? So because they could be wearing Rolexes and not know fuck all about watches. So to me, it it's not an enthusiast brand, right? And I had this conversation with somebody at a brand because I work I work with I don't know how many brands at this point anymore, but I work with L VMH group, I work with Reachmont, you know. I talked to those people, those leaders, I talked to the leadership at Swatch Group, you know, like we had these conversations, and and a one person, and I'm not obviously I don't want to say who, but you know, they were they were talking a lot about Rolex, like, oh well look at Rolex is doing that, Rolex is doing this, da da da da da da. And I said to them, like, Rolex has something you you have something that Rolex can never ever ever have, is like the enthusiast, like hardcore collector, right? Like people look at that wrist of that brand, aware of that brand, and say, that guy knows watches, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:28

Wow, this is the this conversation is so fucking interesting to me because there's so many different little dynamics, right? Especially because you really know watches as well, Blake. So I want to kind of put a question to you. Do it. You said that for you personally, you're disheartened by the fact that your Rolexes are no longer a conversation starter. Do you think that's because people are just so familiar with the brand now, so they kind of don't really have anything to say, or do you think it's because the brand doesn't mean what it used to anymore?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:05

Ooh.

Blake Rea 1:17:09

I think it might be the whole cocktail, right? That everybody like like everybody's got a submariner, like the like like m in a position, right? Like everybody wants diver with a ceramic bezel, you know, like you know, that has like a an oyster style case or some shit, right? So like so everybody has their submariner in their collection, right? What it doesn't matter what brand, you know, it's it's just a dive watch, right? So so I think yes, I think the fact that everybody tries to copy paste submariner, I think the fact that the brand has totally kind of not supported the community that supports it, right? The fact that we're wearing these little stupid things that none of us need, right? Like, I don't need a freaking Rolex, I don't need any watch, but I choose to enjoy these things, right? So the fact that they've essentially turned into this this symbol, right? This symbol to be desired, you know, to me, like the more you learn about luxury, the more you learn about scarcity. Like, like if I were to take, if I were to go to any, you know, like crazy watchmaker, right, and say, I want you to hand make me a watch, right? Like that then becomes luxury. There's only one of them, or there's only, you know, a handful of them, right? So we're talking about a mass market product that is positioning itself as a luxury brand, an aspirational brand, but doesn't give a fuck about any of the aspirations for people to get there.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:12

So here's the thing, though. Here's the thing, and this is like me as like listen, I've spent the last 12 years to a decade, like over a decade, like researching brands and being obsessed with brands and seeing why some succeed and why some that have been super successful then fall down to their asses, right? And I've been calling this on my channel for months now, right? For months. This is what's gonna happen in my eyes. The enthusiast, there's two different types of customers. I think we're gonna agree on that. There's probably more, but just to keep it simple, there's two different types of customers when it comes to watches. There's people who know their shit, and there's people who don't quite know their shit but still want to buy based on what's going to be the best stop, the best option for them, right? And most people think in this kind of lower category, it's not a lower category, it's just a different category of people who don't know as much about watches yet. So they can't make as much as an of a of an informed decision because they don't understand power reserve, they don't really care about the movements, they don't really care about you know Grand Siego's finishing as opposed to Rolex's the fact that indexes on a Rolex are significantly easier to make and less complicated than on a Grand Siego. They don't really care about that. What they care about is the fact that after winning Wimbledon, Rafael Nadal wore a Rolex. That's what they care about. They want to be connected to that, right? And we're all human, we all kind of get inspired by what people wear and what they do, and we get influenced by that subconsciously, whether we like it or not. That's just human nature, right? To a certain degree, different people are kind of keyed into it better and worse. The reality is though, Blake, that people like you are very influential to other people, even subconsciously. So they see someone like you at these events and they're like, oh, Blake, Blake does this, Blake does that, Blake thinks about things this way. Blake doesn't worry Rolex anymore. Why is that? So these people who look up to people like you, people like Teddy, people like you know, Adrian Barker, all the all these people who kind of put the word out. Now, some people are not as vocal about Rolex because they're kind of scared of kind of getting the access taken away. But at some point, it just becomes so evident that more and more people are more vocal. Like Mike from This Watch That Watch, for example, he is extremely good at breaking things down and really kind of being very transparent and very honest about what he actually thinks about things. He kind of is what it says in the tin, like he is extremely genuine in a lot of things that he says from my experience of watching him, and more and more people are being like that. And you yourself are making podcasts about this and being very genuine and very transparent about your experience as somebody who has owned or does own five Rolexes. So, what does that say? It says that the people at the top are becoming more and more transparent about what they actually think about Rolex

Collecting For Fit And Story

SPEAKER_01 1:22:10

because they feel less and less connected to the brand. And what they once, what Rolex once was, is not the same anymore because the EDs are at the forefront of that experience since COVID and since that whole greed period started to basically completely shift how customers were treated. That is impacting how enthusiasts see the brand and and actually speak about them. And therefore, the people underneath are also going to become more informed and also learn what the brand actually represents now, not before. And that takes a lot of time. It's kind of like the water that boiled the frog, right? Like it just gently warms up and gently warms up, and all of a sudden the frog is fucked. And that is what's going to happen. And it's a terrible thing to see because even now I want to like Rolex, like I want to buy one of their watches. I had the money there, I've still got the money there, but it's just it's just not gonna happen because my integrity and my respect for myself, I don't give it like brands are kind of like people, right? If you had a friend who was nice to you, but then all of a sudden they just start being an absolute asshole to you for like two years and try to be like sneaky and try to treat you with disrespect and they don't treat you for the person that you are, then are you gonna stick around with that friend? Probably not. No, you're probably gonna tell them to piss off. So why are brands any different? Why are we still gonna be standing outside, bashing the door down with a 10 grand, checking our hand, whatever? It's not gonna happen.

Blake Rea 1:23:42

Well, why the yeah, you know, you you talked about, you know, Nadal, right? I think there's a different subculture that's happening, right? So, like, you know, the fact that you wanted to buy your Rolex, you know, I also wanted to do what you did, right? And like your money isn't as good or better than mine, right? Like, or my money is not better than yours, or whatever, right? So, like, if we have the same six thousand dollars sitting next to each other on the table and wait and and they say choose one, like, do you really think they're gonna give a shit if it comes from me or you just a normal person or a normal brand? Right? Like, like what makes me more qualified to buy it? And the second part, which I think you know, is the real like cherry on top, ice cream, you know, freaking whipped cream, whatever you want to call it, that you can go own something. Let's just say the microphones that we're talking on. If I say, Scott, you're gonna buy the SM7B, you're gonna run that thing for three to five years, and you're gonna be able to sell it for the exact same thing that you got, if not maybe a little bit more, right? Like, I wouldn't have never bought this fucking road pod mic, right? I'll buy the SM7B, I'll pay a little bit more for this a hundred dollar microphone, that's like a five hundred dollar microphone, right? Like, like that is the is is the reason why people buy Rolex, right? That's just the core philosophy reason they look at it as as a diversion of wealth, right? A parking meter with a parking ticket and a status symbol, whatever, you know. Hey, this guy, you know, is his has made it, he's done something with his life, da-da-da-da-da. That is it. So, what other product can you buy, wear it for six years, seven years, whatever, and walk away with your money? There's not any other product out there that can do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:58

But here's the thing, but here's the thing. So I hear you and I agree, but there's more to it because the gray market pricing is dictated by scarcity. If all of a sudden tomorrow you know you could go into any Rolex and buy a submariner, for example, they would be more accessible. So the only reason that the gray market prices are as high as they are, and that are higher than retail is because at retail they are not they are not attainable. So therefore, what why is that relevant? It's relevant because once well, how does the scarcity become less? The scarcity becomes less when demand and supply become either the same or def or in the opposite direction. And that can only happen one of two ways. Number one, if Rolex starts producing more, and number two, if people start demanding it less. What we literally just spoke about before, about the two different types of customers, the enthusiasts like me and you, who were just literally saying, Okay, you don't want to treat us with respect, you don't want to, you know, be good to the guys that are actually kind of cheering you on and making content about you and talking about you to you know rooms of people like you are, Blake. Okay, we'll go elsewhere, we'll buy two Zennas. Fuck you. So the supply is Rolex manages that, that's the gauge that they manage, but they cannot, they cannot manage the conversations that are happening in rooms for forever. And this is just a little period, just a few years. COVID happened, what what was it like five, six years ago or something stupid like that?

Blake Rea 1:27:43

Tw 2019, 2020.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:45

Yeah. So yeah, it it takes time. Six years sounds like a long period of time, seven years. But over the long scheme of things, a lot can happen very quickly when things are going downhill very gradually and things are. Are going downhill. More and more people, conversations that I'm having, look at the comment sections of YouTube channels. That's where you should be looking because that's where your fucking customers are, Rolex. Check it out. And that's where people look to for guidance. They don't look at articles anymore because they know it's mostly bullshit a lot of the time. It's like, yeah, I'll kind of take it with a pinch of salt, knowing that that person was probably paid to see that type of thing, or they have a relationship with that brand that they want to keep positive. But the person in the comment section who says, Oh, I've had that watch for two years, I sold it because it was shit. That's the type of stuff that I want to understand. Okay, why did he sell it? What was the thing that was shit? Why is 30% of this comment section all saying the same thing? There must be something to that, right? No? Yes, no? So that's kind of where the conversation is going. And that kind of ties into as well, like one of the main things about marketing. You can have like the shittest product in the world, and you can market the crap out of it. And you're gonna be able to sell some watches or whatever, and you're gonna be able to get some in some people's hands, but it's not going to last very long, it's not gonna be sustainable. The best type of marketing is putting 5% in your marketing budget and putting 95% into product development and making your product the best it can be. That's that's that's what's marketing is all about, and honestly, it's it's the cheat code, it's an absolute cheat code. If people focus less on marketing and bullshit and actually just focused on making the best product, then you've got a a long-lasting business which is over time gonna compound and it's gonna be sustainable.

Blake Rea 1:29:34

I I've also said, too, like the death of the modern watch brands is here. Like the like like you know, the Grim Reaper has the sickle and is freaking slicing through these people right now because a brand to me dies when they don't innovate, right? When they when they when they give you the same freaking thing, it's like they you know, they take something and they just dress it up and repackage it, right? Like, like how has like look at look at Apple, right? Like Apple's a a company that they're getting a lot of heat right now. I'm not sure if you've read the

Organic Marketing And Trust

Blake Rea 1:30:20

the Reddits on Macs right now. It's a freaking bloodbath because they just raise their prices, right? Like the same MacBook that I'm talking to you on right now is $800 more expensive, right? $700, whatever, I don't know, whatever it is, right? The fact that brands are charging more without delivering more is the death of any company, in my opinion, right? And and how can how can that be the case? You know, like brands used to innovate, brands used to like develop, right? Like brands used to like push the envelope, right? And so that to me is the death of for me as a collector, right? Like that right there is when I see the sickle coming, you know, like the fact that they're just like, you know, taking this, right, and and giving it to us in titanium, and like, you know, changing the dial color or whatever, like and and and and dangling it in front of you as if like you you like you have to own this, you know, like it makes no sense but but I also think about like the psychology just like of the human mind of like people wanting to like to to have something that they can't have, right? Or like I saw this freaking guy who like dresses up as Justin Bieber and like goes around, right, and pretends to be Justin Bieber for clout, right? Like, you know, like but the second he's not dressed up like Justin Bieber, that shit disappears, right? Like you can we're in the death of the modern watch brand era, right? And there's gonna be brands that survive this, and there's gonna be brands that don't survive this, right? And I I don't I don't know, I can't predict this, but once you transcend collecting, you start to look at brand values, right? Like, what does this brand do for the community? What does this brand do to the world that I live in? You know, like frickin' Ulise Nardan, for example, they fucking go out and fucking like tag sharks and like you know, frickin' collect ocean fucking, you know, like plastic and shit. Like, you know, I don't know what Rolex is doing. What are they doing? You know, freaking putting their name on tennis courts and and putting clocks in airports. Oh thanks, you know, like that's fine, whatever, right? But but besides that, you know, like something's gotta change, you know, like and it's wild. It's it's so wild that we've ended up here, you know, like just as as as a as a human race, like as as as as an enthusiast, as a hobbyist, like, you know, if I stop buying glue, if I'm you know, if I'm building, you know, little model cars, I stop buying glue, you know, like I can't make a fucking model car, right? Like glue is innovation in the watch industry, right? Like, I don't know what the fuck's happening, you know. It it's it's it's wild to me, you know, or people punching themselves and getting tackled for a freaking little plastic AP. The fuck is the matter with what's going on in this industry, dude? Like it's it's I'm not optimistic, you know, sadly. I I there's times where I think about it and I'm like, is this the right hobby for me? You know, as somebody who like you know wants to see like genuine enthusiasm and like transparency and like holds themselves to a high integral like bar.

SPEAKER_01 1:34:19

You know, but but Blake, I've got to stop you, man. I've gotta stop you. You're the captain of the fucking ship, man. So we can't lose you. All right, you you you you can't go fucking anywhere, my friend. But look like I'm I am I am optimistic to a point of negativity, I think. Like I like I am optimistic until like I'm literally on the ground bloodied and stuff. I think there's always a way, and I think this is kind of one of the things it's it's kind of to my detriment sometimes, where in any given circumstance we can take anything that's negative and turn it into a positive, right? So, what you were saying, right, about a lack of innovation, about you know, values of a company. I think that in a world where, yes, the likes of Rolex and maybe a couple of other brands are not being as innovative as they could be, they are you know maybe not treating customers the way that they should. Okay, I get it. They're gonna do what they fucking want anyway. Whatever. What can we take positive from that, right? Innovation, right? We can focus as a community of watch enthusiasts to empower and push smaller independent brands in the right direction so that these guys get more and more of the market share, right? And slowly, over time, it's not gonna be a battle that's gonna be one in a year or two years, maybe a decade or two, but over time, people are gonna become more and more savvy about the watches that they're buying, which is going to help to grow that market and help independent companies have more market share. That's one thing, so that's innovation. Secondly, I don't know about you, but any experience that I've had with like smaller brands, like Christian Reward, like Serega, like Studio Underdog, like all the all the brands that you can basically talk to, right? Like, you know, you've been to these events yourself, they are so happy and so grateful for your custom. They will literally walk over broken glass to shake your hand to say, do you know what you spent 600 quid on my watch, your hard-earned fucking money. You spent that trusting me and my project, and you trusted me to deliver on that, even though we've never met in person, even though you literally just watched a couple of my YouTube videos and you don't even know anything about me, but you trusted me with your hard-earned money that you actually saved to buy a watch for me to deliver on a promise which you didn't even know I was able to do. I don't have big fancy boutiques, I don't sponsor Wimbledon. That is another place where a lot of these companies can win because customer service, you don't have to have the most innovative project. You can just really take care of people and just do a little bit of extra, extra loving care to make sure that their tracking track product arrived on time, to make sure that you check up on them after they don't get back to you to an email. All these little tiny things, all the time, compound and people stop, people are not stupid, Blake. They know where their money is best spent. If you want to see how smart someone is, tell them to make a decision with their wallet. They're gonna make the smartest fucking decision of their life in a lot of cases. And another thing, as well, about this whole scarcity thing and about you know these luxury brands, LVMH do this, where they only put a certain amount of wallets out, for example. This is why, in this is a whole thing which you'll find in that book, The Luxury Strategy. If you go into a luxury store, they don't have like a department store where they have multiple rows of that particular product, they'll have one product and a lot of space around that product. Do you know why that is? Do you know why they do that?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:44

Because back in the day, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37:46

Back in the day, medieval times, if you had more space and you could waste that space in olden in kind of medieval times, it was having a garden. So if you could have a house and you had a garden which was essentially wasted space back in the time, you didn't have to build on it, that was a sign that you were of a higher prestige, like you were of a higher level, a higher status. So that's what luxury brands do. They know that if you have a website, for example, which is like wasted space, or they have a big store, but but like on like a massive wall, they literally have like five bags or something, it makes the bag feel more special, it makes it feel more valuable. And you'll see that in watches as well, where they have one big cabinet, it's just one single nautless slap bang in the middle, and it's tiny. Like it's a whole psychology thing that you talked about.

Blake Rea 1:38:34

We're and we're hunter-gatherers, man. Like, you know, the early days where we had to fight for our food, right? We had to go out and hunt for our food. Like, that is the psychology that they're they're they're tapping into, right? We have to prove ourselves to these these watch brands worthy enough to wear their watches, you know. And I'm not here to to to knock anybody's choice, right? Uh Rolex makes great watches, right? Like, that is the preface. Like, there's watch there's Rolexes out there that have been ticking for 25 plus years that haven't had a single fucking service, right? Rolex makes great watches, but it's not a choice that I choose to make, you know. Like if I have 10 brands to choose from and I could only wear, you know, one brand for the rest of my life, it's not gonna be a Rolex.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:28

Disrespect. They disrespected you, like you know, the they're maybe not they don't represent what you want to wear on your wrist. So it comes down to values. Again, it's a completely another arm of the the chair, right? But it's one of those things they'll they'll they'll learn, they'll learn eventually.

Blake Rea 1:39:47

But it if yeah, and I mean look at the earlier days, right? Like I I think I think this is it was a genuine accident, right? That happened, right? Like this strategy that that they're deploying was a genuine accident, you know, COVID, right? Shut down the world, right? People weren't making shit. I don't care what factory you're looking at, China, frickin' Switzerland, Germany, like Japan, like nobody was making anything, right? Yeah, and when nobody was making anything, the freaking demand shot through the roof, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:40:28

Everybody wanted they're not being accountable though. Like, I've actually got emails from Rolex. So I actually emailed Rolex about the AD experience personally in Geneva, and I actually put a video about it where I tried to like play like the AD game and actually be nice to a Rolex AD to see if I could get a Rolex from them just as an experiment, a social experiment. And I emailed Rolex about it, exactly what happened. I didn't give any names or anything, I didn't want to be slimy, but I basically said, listen, I've I've had this experience from multiple ADs where they've basically tried to sell me either a Tudor or other companies, and they said, and I show the emails on the actual video, they said this is the official Rolex PR email, right? They said what other ADs do is not under our control. And the fact that they could not take accountability and say,

Kickstarter Fees Versus Margins

SPEAKER_01 1:41:20

we'll even look into it or whatever, the fact that they can't even take accountability and they are okay. I asked them specifically, I asked them four simple questions. I can't remember the exact questions, but one of those questions were you know that this is happening, not just to me, but to multiple people, like the vast majority of the people who are actually invested in trying to potentially get a Rolex, your customer base. So you're telling me that you, after I've just told you that it happened to me, you're not going to do anything about it. Is that what I'm saying? That's your position. And they basically said, we can't do anything. They basically just give me a copy and paste, chat GBT, bullshit, bullshit, blah blah blah, corporation email.

Blake Rea 1:41:58

If if if that's true, why is Booker still doing it right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:04

That's it. I've heard that Bookerers apparently, I mean, you hear things that people have good experience at certain places. Generally, if they have a good experience, they probably got the watch that they wanted. So that's kind of the the back and forth with it, right? But I've heard that family-owned Rolex boutiques are slightly better, but again, in Thailand, it's and the the the worst thing is, Blake, I've actually did other work, promotional work for some companies, some family companies in Thailand for other brands, and they own Rolex boutiques, and I'm shitting on their company, like their company essentially, or that arm of their company. But it's but but it's the truth, like my my integrity, my values for me telling things how I think they are, until I'm wrong, and I'll admit that I'm wrong if I am. Sure. But that is the experience that I've had with one of the boutiques, for example, that I actually promoted for their other boutique. When I first went in with my wife before my son was born, everything was good, everything was fine. They treat me extremely well. I went into the exact same boutique to up to update my interest list, and they basically treat me like I was a scumbag, like I was some sort of tourist who was just there just for a couple of days. And the point that kind of broke my the camel's back again, as you've mentioned before, Blake, is she asked me to write down my my name and my number on a piece of scrap paper that was like crumbled and stuff. And then as I was walking out of the boutique, I saw her from the corner of my eye, put it in the bin. Oh yeah, I heard you tell the story. I thought, okay, okay, that's it, done. Easy, done. Because you can't control if people disrespect you, but you can control how you react to that disrespect. And there's people in Geneva who I met that who act very nice online, and then when you actually meet them in person, it was a very different dynamic. And when they shake the hand of you, you don't get their eye contact, and they just you know for a fact that they kind of think that the levels above are say, okay, no worries. Cards marked, cards marked, no problem. I know I know who I'm I know who I'm speaking to now. I get you. I've I've looked into your eyes or not, and I understand who I'm speaking to now. And the reality is that it's it's just people often underestimate kind of what they're dealing with. And for Rolex, for example, they're underestimating the fact that, yeah, they might be disrespecting one person, but it only takes one person, like you see on these airline flights sometimes, where like an influencer goes on like a flight and they're tripped really badly for like a nut allergy or something stupid, and then everyone just boycotts that airline. It just takes one person who has enough, and I'm not saying I'm that person by any stretch of the imagination, because I'll never walk into a Rolex boutique ever again, ever again, never. That's it, it's done. End of story, and it just takes one little person at a time to make that happen, and eventually, like five years' time, for example, if they if they learn their lesson and then they turn back and say, Oh, I'm really sorry, all pieces are available now. How many people how many people are gonna be queuing up because I'm fucking not? I'm gonna be I'm gonna be in event, I'm gonna be in an event with you checking out fucking decent brands that have actually been there the whole entire time. People who actually have integrity, who have those values? Because you can talk about values, you can talk about you know things, for example, like putting tags on sharks and cleaning up plastic and doing hills, Rolex do all that shit as well. But when you talk about values, you're talking about values that people actually care about. And yes, people can care about the ocean, people can care about that, but how's about just treating your customers with respect first and then cleaning the ocean afterwards? Because it's all good saying a good game, but what about what about actually putting some action behind your words? Because that's one thing as a branding consultant, which I learned. People are all giddy and all excited about you know, putting their about us page up on their website about how you know environmentally friendly they are, but then they're taking private planes to X, Y, and Z. Like actually put actions behind your words and actually back them up. And guess what? They might actually hold some weight when you have a conversation instead of just having some corporation bullshit because people are not stupid, people are smarter than you know, and Rolex at the moment thinks they're smarter than everyone else. And the reality is they've just got a hundred years of history. That's the only reason people still look at them at the same way. That's it, and it's all gonna come from the down.

Blake Rea 1:46:39

I think I mean, I don't even think Rolex has has heritage personally. Like, there's so many other great brands out there that have so much heritage that just runs laps around Rolex. In terms, if you if you want to put it like heritage-wise, but like the fact that they're tapping into psychology, the the resale value, the the money diversion aspect of it, that you know, I said, hey, cool, like you could buy a watch for 10 grand, maybe in in four years, wear it every day, sell it for 12, maybe get your 10 back, maybe lose a thousand dollars, whatever. Like that's rad, right? If if if you take away any of these arms, right, like the resale value, the whatever, the supply chain, like it collapses. It's a house of cards, you know, in my opinion. And and again, you know, like I feel like as a collector, you know, I'm not here and and and look at any piece of content that I've ever done. This this conversation that we're having right now, this is the most that I've ever talked about Rolex ever online because they just don't interest me enough to talk about them, right? Like, I've never wrote an article about Rolex, I've never talked about Rolex really online, except for like in gossip corners, you know, my friends, right? Like, if they want to talk about it and they bring it up, I'll I'll give my two cents and I've I've said it a couple times. But the fact that I can take the same ten thousand dollars for a submariner, eleven thousand, whatever it is now, eleven three, whatever, give me three freaking conversational watches and keep seven grand, whatever, eight grand in my pocket, that is how I treat it in in the bottom line is like we're all in this hobby for different reasons, right? We are we all share the same passion, but we're all attracted to different things. And if somebody goes to to buy like I'm not knocking Rolex, like I'm not knocking Rolex collectors, I'm not knocking how you Scott choose to spend your money. Like, who who who is it like, why why do I care how you decide to spend your money? Why do you care how I decide to spend my money? You know what I mean? And at the end of the day, like

Rolex Waitlists And Brand Backlash

Blake Rea 1:49:10

the freedom of choice is the most important thing, and and there's a million freaking watch brands out there, there's a million frickin' watches, and I'm sure there's a lot more out there that deserve your money than the ones you're giving them to.

SPEAKER_01 1:49:27

Yeah, the the thing is as well, like I get a lot of shit online, especially on YouTube videos, because I'm quite I always try to be as obstructed obstructively negative as possible. Like, for example, I don't want to be a YouTuber where I'm like being politically correct all the time, where I'm kind of staying on the brand's good side. Like I bought the Hydro Conquest, right, which is behind me, and I said everything that I thought was good about it, and everything that I thought was bad about it that it wears a little bit too big, that sometimes it feels a little bit heavy. That's, for example, the micro just could have one or two extra positions just to give me a little bit more flexibility. And I get people on the comments saying, oh, like you're bitter about Rolex, you're you're just negative about them, blah, blah, blah. And to a point I can understand, but there's other things that they're not really taken into consideration. Number one is ad revenue. So, for example, when you have a conversation about Rolex, it's a really easy way for me to get the ad revenue to reinvest back into product development for Emmett and Scott, which then I can also make up more time to make videos that I actually like. So instead of having a couple of average kind of performing videos, I make like one or two Rolex videos a month, and then I can just focus the rest of the videos on stuff that I don't even know perform very well. But it's stuff that interests me and then I think interests other people. And then there's other aspects of it where it's like, okay, I can give you a topic about Rolex, but I can also subtly talk to you about something else in the video which can push you into other brands like Vashron or Zenith or another brand out there, or Chopart, for example, with the Alpine Eagle, for example. I'm making some content on that now. Like my job, or not my job, but my goal with the YouTube channel is to show people that man, there's so many other watches out there that are so well designed. You don't have to spend nine grand on a watch to make it feel good. Some watches that are 15 grand from Hublo, for example, are going to be really disappointing. Some brands, like a $1,000 Sarroger, is going to feel amazing and you're going to be able to wear it forever because it's got an awesome movement inside. So I just want to educate and give the power to the person who is spending their money so that they can spend their money in the best way possible. Maybe they end up on my website, mm-scott.com, and they end up fucking buying one of my watches. Yes, maybe. But also maybe not. I couldn't give a shit. Like it's all about them making the best decision for them and finding the watches like you, with you know your Doxer, you know, kind of collection now. It's working for you. And that's what's the most important thing. That's what we like about watches. What you like isn't necessarily what I like. Do you know what I mean? So that's the whole thing. And that's what I that's what I want to happen for people to just have more information to allow them to make better decisions for them.

Blake Rea 1:52:17

Yeah. Yeah, there's something too that I've struggled with. And then we'll we'll end this because we are this is an epic freaking episode. Two hours, almost two hours of just going back and forth. But there's people, and this this is like something that I think about, right? Like I talk online about watches, right? You do the same, right? I get invited to go to watches and wonders, I get invited to go to the manufacturers to to to have the dinners, right? You know, I get access, right? And when I first started this project, my first guest was Periscope, Jose Perestroika. I'm like, fuck, dude, I'm gonna get canceled on episode one. I don't whatever, right? Like it's not it's not about access, right? But there's people out there that are insiders, right? You can call me one if you want, right? But if you're not if you're not following the marching orders, you're not gonna have access.

unknown 1:53:40

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:53:40

Do you know do you know how stupid they are though? Like just just to kind of just to kind of intervene just for a second, Blake, and I'll let you kind of finish things off. Do you know what the stupid thing is about what brands don't understand, right? And this is the most idiotic thing in the entire world. Do you know what it is? I'm sending this is the this is the first time we ever have any Evermont pieces available to send out to any influencers and stuff. So I've got a couple of people who I'm kind of sending out watches to. If I've got any available, I'll send uh one out to you as well just to kind of get your feedback. Do you know what makes me the happiest fucking guy in the world? When I send a watch out to somebody and I get their honest feedback so I can make the product better, that makes me as happy, if not more happy, than any customer saying your watch is fucking awesome, blah, blah, blah. I love that as well, but what these brands don't fucking get, and it's it's it's it's idiotic to be honest with you. I don't understand how such intelligent people with such high-paying jobs don't fucking get this. Do you understand that when you give a product to somebody and then they say 10 bad things and then one really good thing, maybe, or maybe five bad things and five good things, the the five good things hold so much more weight because you know they're being honest and transparent. If you send a watch to somebody and they're just saying everything's rosy and everything's perfect, piss off. Do you know what I mean? It's not true. No watch is like absolutely perfect in every single way. The Hydro Conquest is awesome, but there's some things that I don't fucking like about it after wearing it for a couple of weeks. That's the truth. I'm gonna tell you the truth. And the fact of the matter is, you know that if a person has slated a brand, like for example, I slay pretty much Rolex on a daily basis, on my like not a daily basis, but a lot, right? If they did something really cool, then I say it's really cool, people are gonna fucking believe it because I've literally said everything that's negative about them, and then I hate their customer service. But if I say that their new watch is, you know, man, like they've really knocked it out of the park. People are gonna believe me, and people are gonna actually take that with a ton of of authority. What these brands want is they want everything to be absolutely perfect. I've had a couple of companies that have actually like emailed me and said, like, why did you say this in your video? Why did you say that? Because it's my opinion. So you can like it or you can lump it. I couldn't give a shit if you send me any more watches. I really don't care. Like, focus on your focus on your product and everything else will take care of itself, my friend. So instead of being a little bitch and saying, Oh, why did you say this about my product? Why don't you take those pieces of constructive criticism on board and make the product better or maybe think about it and do a little bit of a survey and talk to your customers to see if they feel the same way. Instead of trying to make everything, you know, perfect on the outside, I get it. But also as well, it's short-term thinking and long-term thinking. Because listen, it's the whole turtle and hair situation. If you're just constantly focused on trying to make everything perfect over the short term, sooner or later, that turtle who's slowly but surely gradually working on their product and gradually making the product better, it's going to be undeniable that their product is going to completely outshine you in every aspect. And you and your PR team and your marketing team can all sip your little espresso and tell people how clever they are. But at the end of the day, the product speaks for itself, and customers are not stupid, and they're getting more and more informed as time goes on. Anyway, sorry for that little detour. No, I love that.

Blake Rea 1:56:58

I love it. And it is so true. Like, yeah, like I think what the watch industry needs is like a true like outsider. Right? Like a true, like, I mean, there's there's no Batman in the watch industry that can go around and say, hey, your bracelet sucks. Hey, your fucking dial's a piece of shit. Hey, like you're using shitty movements, like these are fucking trash, right? Like every journalist, every every creator walks on eggshells, you know. Like, I I even find myself wondering how I can tiptoe around, you know what I mean? Like, without poking the bear, right? Like the bear being the end of not not that they pay me, so I don't know why I I I I worry about that, but you're right, you know, you're right. Like it it we something's gotta change, you know, and yeah, I mean, these brands should should listen, right? And I came up, I I want I want there to be, and that this will probably never happen, but in my dream fantasy watch world that lives in Blake's head, that doesn't exist anywhere else, like if if there was somebody that that knows the enthusiasts and knows the brand, I I've tried to have these conversations. Like, I've tried to have these conversations with brands. I'm like, hey, here's what the enthusiast wants. You know, here's what the community wants. Like, here's what I think you should do. And yeah, I mean, it it's it's it it falls on deaf ears, you know, and and fine, fine, fine, fine, fine, you know, like just because you've been around a hundred years doesn't mean that everything you're doing is right, you know. Even if you do something wrong, like who who cares? You know, like there's very few brands out there that have admitted like like look look at Panorai, like with the Brooklyn Bridge Bridge thing, right? Like, are you familiar with that whole scandal?

SPEAKER_02 1:59:26

No.

Blake Rea 1:59:27

Long story short, they they essentially like promised this decorated, I mean, the way that I understood it, they promised this decorated movement, da da da. You know, people got clever, opened the watches, and it was just a freaking unfinished movement, right? So people are paying X dollars for this watch, and they expected it to be like this beautiful old it and and they hid the movement by like a some decoration or some like like tinted case back. Just just Google Panorai Brooklyn Bridge. You'll you'll learn all about it. But but brands they they don't even come out and acknowledge like they're fuckery, you know, and that's that's fine. That's fine. Like I I don't know, I don't know if like an like an inanimate object can even have integrity, right? Like the brands, like and somebody said this to me that changed my thinking on all of this, right? And this is the way that I think about watches. You know, you said it, grain of salt. There's gonna be people at every single company, Apple, whoever, freaking Windows, Microsoft, whatever, watch brands, you know, Rolex, Panorai, whoever, right? Who genuinely fuck everything up at that brand, right? And that's fine, right? But as an enthusiast, you look beyond the stupid

Innovation, Values, And Community

Blake Rea 2:01:10

people, and I'm not calling anybody stupid, you look beyond the stupid decisions that are made every day at those brands because you have integrity. Right? I know that sounds so weird to say, but to say, look, if I became the CEO of a watch brand, I'm gonna try and change that brand. Right? If you, Scott, you own your own freaking watch brand, you are trying to change the you are trying to do a course correct, like a culture correct.

SPEAKER_01 2:01:40

And that's the thing. That's the thing as well, Blake, though. Like, I I've said this on my fucking channel a million times. Like, I own my own watch brand, but it doesn't mean I'm gonna get every single decision right. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm not saying that I'm perfect and that I know all the answers because guess what? I fucking don't. But what I am gonna do, the first fucking and I I actually can't, I I kind of subconsciously can't wait for this to fucking happen. I can't wait for something to go disastrously wrong in a way so that I can be the the first thing I'm gonna do, Blake, is I want to get on the fucking camera and I'm gonna make a video about it. And I'm gonna I'm gonna hold my hands up. I'm gonna say, do you know what is? I fucked up. I kind of half did it with the packaging before, and I kind of said, Oh, do you know what it is I kind of fucked up, I misjudged it. It's not the end of the world, but also I need to keep an eye on that in the future. And that like those are the moments where the people who believed in you, they understand that you're fucking human. And yeah, sometimes things are gonna go wrong. Like with the whole swatch thing, I was talking to Sam from Casual Watch Reviews, and he was talking to me about the fact that the Swatch guy, the the CEO, whatever, I'm not sure who it was, but he said something about along the lines of oh, like all the launches went fine or something. I'm just like, piss off, man. There's no way, there's no way, like, there's no way that you can be that inhumane, like, and just think, man, that I mean we can get into it, we can get into that for the whole other fucking hour. I know it won't, but episode two. Yeah, episode two, man. That's that that's already right in itself. But yeah, I think with large corporations, like the likes of Apple, like the likes of Rolex, like the likes of, you know, like all these companies that are underneath the the Richmond group and the LVMH group, the thing with those guys is they're not playing attack, they're playing defense in a lot of ways, and that's the difference. When you play defense, you're playing for safety and you're playing the safe route. It's kind of like how people in positions of recruitment like to hire people who are like them, like people who have been through the university system type thing. Not because they're necessarily the best person or the smartest person for the job, but because they feel like that's the safest option. That's the route that is going to be the least risk. That is what people are doing with the watch designs. That's what they're doing with their portfolio management when it comes to what watches are in their collections. They are making decisions based on the least amount of risk, which as an enthusiast, we don't appreciate as much because we can see that it's the safest route, and that's what kind of dilutes the brand, and that's what makes them a little bit yeah, like there's a lot more risk in holding your hands up and being accountable and saying, Do you know what it is? We fucked up. But when that does happen, that's what actually helps us to fall in love with brands and people, and like that that's what helps us trust people, and again, it's short and long-term thinking. They'll learn their lesson in the long or the short term, or maybe they won't, but let's see.

Blake Rea 2:04:30

Something too, and this is this will be the ending note. When I sold watches, you know, I I sold at an AD, we had 33 watch brands. I could sell everything, you know, any any watch brand you you wanted. When I first got into that role, I was so fucking scared for somebody to say, tell me about this movement, or like, tell me about this or that or whatever. I saw people who worked with me, my colleagues, pretending what you know what I mean, like the fake it till you make it thing, whatever, right? This is that's the the proper term, but they were they were just literally like going, right? As if if they were the expert. Fine, right? I eventually, and I was a watch nerd before I came into this, that that role. Eventually, somebody asked me something that I didn't know. And I was like, you know, I don't know, I'm not sure. Like, let me let me look. Right, let me look this up. I go in the back, you know, I pull up my phone. I can't I can't remember what I did, but pull up my phone and start search, redoing the research to get the answer to their question. So the whole point of this is being wrong doesn't hurt your credibility, or or or or or not knowing, hold on, not knowing doesn't hurt your credibility, right? If and I learned genuinely that people still looked at me as an expert, a watch sales guy, whatever, and I didn't know everything about everything, but all they really cared about is that I cared enough to find out, you know, and I could be like, hey, I don't know, let me look it up, right? That was all it took, right? But at the end of the day, people buy watches from people, people respect people, people attach attach themselves to stories, right? And I don't think I've ever sold a watch to somebody who who maybe didn't like me. I I don't know, maybe I did, but people like to buy from people that they like, you know, and I my approach, you know, everybody in in the store was like, hey, I want to I want to take money from their pocket and put it into mine, right? I want to extract value from this person, right? Like I want to extract resources, right? And my approach was, hey, this is this this guy walking into the store. I don't know his story, Scott. Like, let me let like let me learn who you are, right? Like, let me learn why you love watches, like why you love these things as much as I do. Like, you're you're standing here is the same reason why I'm standing here because I love fucking watches, yeah, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:07:43

Like do man as well with like a boutique with like the AP House thing. Have you been to EFP House? Yeah, I have. Like uh, at least for me, I've heard some bad things and I've heard some good things, but for me, like that experience for me was like I wasn't in a boutique to try and be sold to, and obviously they were trying to sell to me in a way, but that's that's that's what I think needs to happen a little bit, like time and tide. I'm not, I'm not sure if you've been in the establishment yet. I haven't actually been there. I'm gonna try and hit it when I get to New York. Yeah, it's it's like a place of like community, right? Where you can just go in and talk watches a little bit like Virgin Records, right back in the day, where they had like a place for people who appreciated music to come together. Exactly what you're talking about. You having like 10 blakes in a store instead of people just trying to sell to you, you're gonna buy more because you actually feel more appreciated. You feel like you're part of the you're with your people, man. 100% you've you've hit on the fucking head.

Blake Rea 2:08:40

Or or I I would always say this every ex every time, right? And I would get in trouble every time I said this. But when you leave this store, I want you to feel as good about this purchase as you did three months from now as you do today. And now is your chance to back out of this. I would I would literally say I don't want you to I don't want you to buy this because I'm selling this to you. Like, I want you to buy this because you fucking love this, right? And if you call me in three months and say, Blake, I don't like this anymore, or like, you know, Blake, like that right there crushes me. And that that that fucks me up, you know, and I would say that. I would say, look, like, don't buy this because it's here, don't buy this because I'm giving you a good deal, don't buy this because you think you like this. Like, if you love this, I would be honored to sell this to you, right? Don't buy it for any other reason, you know? And so every every time I would sell a watch, I would give them the opt-out button right then and there. Because I know how it is, you know, I know how it is. Like, like when you go into this store and like you're comparing what's on your wrist to what's in the case, yeah, right? And and you, it's not like you have your entire watch collection there with you. I don't think, you know, where you can be like, okay, let me put my let me put my C master on. Okay, let me put my speed master on. Okay, let me put this this this kernel master sport. Okay, let me put this to five. Like, you know, you can't really do that, right? So you're always thinking about like, you know, like how this watch gets on with the one you're wearing, you know. And and so yeah, you know, watches are a very long sales process. There's multiple touch points, like you know, you spend hours doing research, then you get hands-on with the watch, then maybe you wear it for two seconds, then you leave the store, you go home, you think about it, you know, you you you spend, you know, till midnight doing more research the next night, you know, then you go back, you try it on again, and then you're like, fuck, I'm like seven thousand dollars away from this, right? I need to save up some money. Okay, by the time I get that seven thousand dollars extra, do I have the money to buy this or do I love something else? You know what I mean? So, like, as collectors, we're all bipolar. Like, there's I don't I don't care. There's not a single person out here who collects watches who has a fucking rational brain. I don't care, like none of us do. We're all crazy. There's it's it's we're all we're all we're all crazy, right? But people that talk about their collections logically, like I respect those people, but that that ain't me. That ain't me. Like, I my passion fuels my purchases, and and and I I still make mistakes, you know. I still make mistakes, buying mistakes, and I still make collecting mistakes, and you know, I I asked this to the head of five corporate brands. They were all sitting in front of me at one time, all from different frickin' conglomerates. And I I say, I asked, I think I I can't remember the exact question, but it was something along the lines of like you're all selling products, right, with history, with heritage, you're leaning on marketing and design and da-da-da-da-da. Like, how how do you they're they're tapping into like the Everest moment, right? You you climb Everest and and freaking plant a flag

Closing Thoughts And Where To Find

Blake Rea 2:12:40

there or whatever, right? Like, if I were to take a helicopter up to Everest and freaking paint a flag and take a helicopter back down, I don't even know if that's possible, you get it, right? Like, there's no fun in that, you know. Like the fact that you deserve to get something, you know, you climb to the top of that summit, that freaking mountain, and come back down with your life, you deserve that title, right? So the only reason why I'm saying this is because watch collecting, there's no fucking destination, right? So my question to them was like, how do you educate customers that watch collecting is more about the journey, or more no sorry, more about the journey than it is about the destination.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:25

If that's not the the perfect way to end the podcast, I don't know what is meant.

Blake Rea 2:13:29

I got fucking crickets from all five of those people. And tune into the next episode and find out what you know like fireworks.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:40

I know, I know.

Blake Rea 2:13:42

If we haven't gotten canceled and and rehired 10 times tonight, then I don't know what happens.

SPEAKER_01 2:13:48

Oh, we got cancelled for sure. I'm not sure about rehire, but we definitely got cancelled, my friend. But man, I've re I've really appreciated this, man. This has been a long time coming, and man, on to uh on to the next one, man. Man, we've we've got plenty more to talk about, but yeah, the toilet brig is very much needed right now.

Blake Rea 2:14:02

Yeah, no, for sure. I'm sure you want to go go release some of that in the gym. It's freaking 10 30, almost 10 30 here tonight, so 1017.

SPEAKER_01 2:14:12

So really appreciate your time, brother. Really appreciate your time.

Blake Rea 2:14:15

Yeah, we will definitely catch up. Everybody, if you've made it to the end here, two hours and 15 minutes. I love you. Thank you so much for listening. Obviously, you know, Scott and I have our opinions about things and his brand, Emberton Scott. Obviously, I will link them here in the description, the show notes. Highly encourage that you go check out what this guy's doing. You know he's doing it for the right reasons by now, right? And and I think I think that that's he's on to something special for sure. Appreciate that. So go check him out, and we will see you guys on the next episode.